By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Penello specifies why X1vsPS4 performance difference is overstated

Machiavellian on 10 September 2013
Madword said:
Machiavellian said:
Madword said:
Couple of things.

1. The guy doesnt know the full Sony specs and how it compares to the XboxOne so really shouldnt try and compare the two.
2. I can see why he has replied, but he should just make a simple reply of he doesn't believe that the two consoles are that far apart, otherwise it just becomes a right old mess.
3. If both consoles were available to test and there was no other evidence, then I might be inclined to believe him more because of his suggestion that he has gone to his top tech guy... but as he hasnt got a PS4.. how can he know.

I can understand he is in a difficult position... but at the end of it all the games will speak for themselves. If they hadnt done such a rubbish PR job, perhaps pre-orders wouldnt be so bad and they wouldnt feel so much pressure to try and defend their box, rather than just sell it on it's merits.

If the guy is wrong, and his tech guy is wrong, then his credibility will be lost. The only problem i see is that this is coming from the company that stated their console will be 40x more powerful because of the cloud... so I am going to wait and see.

Well no one knows Sony full specs but for what they have released.  So why can he not compare what was released compared to what MS has released.  People have been doing this since June.  Hell, this is the reason we have this 50% performance being touted around for months.

You cannot just make a simple comment like that.  Either try to back it up or shut up.  Personally not sure why he even wasted his time.  Who knows maybe he likes to go into fights where everyone has swords and he is carrying a pocket knife.

I am sure MS and Sony has a unit from each company sitting some where in a lab.

When MS can tell their investor that they are shipping and consumers are buying out their supply, I am sure they are doing fine.  Do not fall for fanboy wars where its a big deal if one company is selling more preorders than another.  this is a much longer race then what will happen in 1 to to years and I believe the consoles that release this November will be much different 2 years from now.

Lets get the quotes right, MS stated that having the cloud will be like having 4 X1 in one box.  Whos to say if that will ever happen but they do have the platform, infrastructure and code base to make it work.

I don't need to back it up...Of course I can make a simple comment like that, its a free country and this is a gaming forum... get over yourself.

He is saying that they have hidden things that make the hidden things they dont know about in the Sony console that makes theirs just as good. Seriously its stupid and rediculous converstation by them. I have said i understand why they might need to quell the conversation, but this isnt doing them any favours. I point you towards the Neogaf thread for evidence. How can they claim one thing without knowing the other.

Hey I didnt use the 40x more powerful... MS did. Blame them for that. As someone who worked with cloud servers and data servers, believe me when i call bullshit on that... hey happy to eat crow in 25+ years time when it finally rings true.

As with pre-orders, yeah they were doing that well they dropped all their DRM, online, and basically made it a PS4. They were doing that well they have had to add FIFA in for day 1 pre-orders to show they have good "value". I am not making this crap up, the evidence is there whether you like it or not.

Of course the race isnt won or lost day 1 but did i say that .. no i did not..., i just said they had done a rubbish PR job... or are you claiming they have done a good PR job since they announced the console? I think you need to chill out a bit and not get so defensive.

Ohh you are going to pull the free country bit.  Why give an opinion and shrare it if you are not going to take the time to support it.  So are you stating you will just make any type of baseless comment without taking the few moments to make sure what you are saying is correct?

As for someone who also work with cloud servers, datacenters and develop cloud based applications that are distributed on millions of servers I call your statement more BS.  I know what the cloud can do and I also know what a platform specifically designed for its strenghts can also accomplish.  Basically Orleans which is MS cloud development platform was created to assit developers in creating cloud based distributed code.  Fully understanding how that setup can take games to another platform is not looking at the bigger picture.  

Who cares where they were 3 months ago, its evident that they are not there now.  As for the X1, its more like a 360 than PS4.  Exactly what is the same about the X1 that make it like the PS4.  Besides dropping the online bit, the 2 consoles are very different.  As for Fifa, are you saying Sony is desparate for giving Knack away for free in a Bundle for Japan???  Is this somehow un-natural for a new console to come bundled with a game on release as incentive to purchase the system.  Evidently your evidence is more personal than anything else.  You act as if Sony and MS are not competiting for sales. 

You implied that preorders is this something that will define this generation, just make sure you see beyound first day sales.  Even now you talk about Fifa as if MS is desparate but forget that Sony is giving a free game in Japan.



Around the Network
Machiavellian on 10 September 2013
dsgrue3 said:
Machiavellian said:
dsgrue3 said:

I posted 2 sources which cited a PS4 advantage that fit the criterion (you can omit the 2nd source). Unless you have any evidence to the contrary I have fullfilled the obligations of my argument. 

But here's another, just for fun:

Adrian Chmielarz, who used to work at the studio People Can Fly (Bulletstorm)

 

You keep posting stuff from people who have no hands on with both consoles.  Hell Adrian appears to not have hands on with neither console.  Without knowing the developers he is talking about, its hard to know their level of experience.  All developers are not made equal, if that was the case every developer out there would have been able to wrap their minds around the Cell and be producing games like ND.  When you can post something from someone with hands on with final hardware from both companies then make a point.  Right now it looks like there isn't any such info out there.

You've already acknowledged the 2 out of 3 sources I initially posted as having had on-hand experience with both consoles, so this opening line is just hilarious to me. Are you incapable of being honest?

Furthermore, you are okay receiving information from Penello's third party source and yet reject Chmielarz's third party sources? They are both relaying information from other people. Don't be such a hypocrite.

Only one of your sources has hands on with both system.  The 2nd one was an engineer with MS and nothing in his post if you read the whole gaf part stated he actually works on the X1.

Also I quoted your 3rd source and what they said so maybe you need to revist that post.  

As for Penello third party source, I made no mention of it.  So I am not sure what you are trying to state with that line.



Imaginedvl on 10 September 2013

I'll do my CBOAT here : "I know from internal sources this guy got payed by Microsoft to say that!"



dsgrue3 on 10 September 2013
Machiavellian said:

Only one of your sources has hands on with both system.  The 2nd one was an engineer with MS and nothing in his post if you read the whole gaf part stated he actually works on the X1.

Also I quoted your 3rd source and what they said so maybe you need to revist that post.  

As for Penello third party source, I made no mention of it.  So I am not sure what you are trying to state with that line.

You are completely incapable of being honest. I guess that happens when you become blinded by loyalty.

"Only one of your sources has hands on with both system" - uh no, both the 1st and 3rd sources posted do. Maybe "revisit" them. 

3rd source actually confirms multiple times that PS4 is superior.

"The PlayStation 4 environment is definitely more mature currently, so Microsoft has some catching up to do."

"The specs on paper would favour the PS4 over the Xbox One in terms of raw power"

What do those comment signify to you? Unless you struggle with basic reasoning ability, that's a clear example of a PS4 advantage. 

DICE even confirms it. When pressed on the alleged PS4 advantage, they used cunning speech to avoid directly confirming it and instead replied:

"More memory or more CPU or GPU power - whatever kind of power we get out of a machine - more is always better, especially for the kind of games that we build."



DD_Bwest on 10 September 2013
Imaginedvl said:

I'll do my CBOAT here : "I know from internal sources this guy got payed by Microsoft to say that!"


no thats far to to clear.  your not drunk, typing giberish and using odd metaphores



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

Around the Network
Imaginedvl on 10 September 2013
DD_Bwest said:
Imaginedvl said:

I'll do my CBOAT here : "I know from internal sources this guy got payed by Microsoft to say that!"


no thats far to to clear.  your not drunk, typing giberish and using odd metaphores

Ahhh Busted :(



Darth Tigris on 10 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
dsgrue3 said:

He actually did not prove anything...he cited an anonymous source of some "Technical Fellow." 

He posted factually incoherent information and was rightfully called out for it. Go read the thread and quit sipping the koolaid.

As to developers confirming a performance advantage for PS4, a simple google search is all that is required. I mean, really, are you so devoted to living in the dark that you won't actively seek out information for yourself?

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/07/xbox_one_developer_concedes_that_ps4_is_more_powerful

http://www.gamechup.com/war-thunder-dev-ps4-gpu-is-40-more-powerful-than-xbox-one-gpu/

http://www.edge-online.com/news/ps4-is-more-powerful-than-xbox-one-on-paper-but-microsoft-will-catch-up-says-avalanche-studios/


Nobody is arguing that there isn't a performance advantage (not even Penello), he's simply stating that the performance difference some people have been throwing around is overstated.

As for your links, the first one gives us nothing about raw numbers or how much of a performance difference there is, just that there is one, so it's basically useless.

As for the second link does the developer even have Xbox One development units?  If so could you tell us which Xbox One game he is working on as I couldn't find one and he appears to just be talking about the same stats that were published before.

Also that third link basically reinforces what Penello is saying so it makes no sense to use that one either.

I'm afraid I have to leave this quote tree infact since this person obviously cannot follow the above train.

The point of contention is in bold, but I'll paste it here so you can read it again. 

"Developers that have had there hands on both have said there is a noticable performance difference when they start developing on them."

This was the starting position of Xenostar. 

Then we have Darth Tigris following with:

"What developers?  People keep making statements like that with no proof"

This is what I'm responding to, precise metrics are completely unnecessary to this particular conversation. It's a deviation of the thread OP, perhaps attempt to understand what is being contested before chiming in with obsolete statements.

It's exceedingly tiring addressing the posts of overtly defensive fans of a certain ilk.

So the first link was from an Xbox developers that says Sony has the better specs.  Here is a quote from that link (basically the article if you read it)

"“The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs, and the most that you can debate is by how much,” said the refreshingly candid employee. “What I can tell you is that I have played Forza Motorsport 5,Killer Instinct, and Ryse on the Xbox One, and they look as good as the games that I play on a high-end PC. Ryse reminded me of Darksiders II.”"

The second link is from a developer who is not making a X1 game which invalidate your bolded point.  You bolded points says developers who has worked on both X1 and PS4 games.  The developer in the second link is stating specs not first hand experience which is very clear from the article.

The third one is from another developer that pretty much validated Albert point.  Here is a quote from the article

"We asked Avalanche’s chief technical officer Linus Blomberg how the two consoles compare. “It’s difficult to say, as it’s still early days when it comes to drivers,” he told us. “With each new driver release, performance increases dramatically in some areas. The PlayStation 4 environment is definitely more mature currently, so Microsoft has some catching up to do. But I’m not too concerned about that as they traditionally have been very good in that area. The specs on paper would favour the PS4 over the Xbox One in terms of raw power, but there are many other factors involved so we’ll just have to wait and see a bit longer before making that judgment.”

If anything, the only thing you did was provide more proof of what Albert is stating instead of anything else.

Thanks for that.

A teacher in high school used to repeat a saying so much that it got on my nerves:  a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.  

There are too many here with exactly that and they are convinced in their own minds that their view of things is the correct one.  Well Penello checked everything he stated with someone that actually worked on the Xbox One, so his words have a weight that none of those that challenge those words can compare to.  I acknowledge that they are favoring the Xbox One for obvious reasons, but the expertise involved is incomparable.  

That being the case, there's nothing left to debate on this subject anymore.  The games will tell the story, and so far they match up well with everything that Penello and others have stated:  parity.  We'll see the rest in time, though I'm sure perceived advantages will still be clear in the eyes of the biased beholders. Again, this is now a dead subject to me.



Imaginedvl on 10 September 2013
Pemalite said:
Adinnieken said:

• 18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU.


Sorry, you lost all credibility with this line.

CPU's and GPU's process information completely differently.

iissshhh... CU != CPU :) He is talking about "Compute Units" in the GPU... Not sure who lost credibility here



Mr Khan on 10 September 2013
Blood_Tears said:
This guys reeks of desperation..

Negative arguments need more support than positive ones. Flesh out your statement, or you could be deemed to merely be trolling.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

DD_Bwest on 10 September 2013

I find it funny that people will take his word over a 3rd party, when he is literally paid by microsoft and isnt allowed to say anything bad. He will never fully admit the ps4 is that much more powerful because that is PART OF HIS JOB. major nelson not only reads it, but he is now a member.



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz