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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Major Nelson on X1 Power: "I can't wait for the truth to come out."

JoeTheBro on 07 September 2013
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:

Dude, you signed up a throw away account on a random video game forum just to "leak" this. You're full of ballsicles.


There's nothing I can say to convince you, but I am most certainly not full of 'ballsicles'. As I said, you'll see on the 29th.

There's a lot you could say to convince me.

All you really need to do is take liability for this claim. Put your reputation on the line.



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DD_Bwest on 07 September 2013

cant tell if its a troll against PS4 fans to worry for 3 weeks, or trolling Xbox fans to get hopes up..

maybe both?



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

misterymedia on 07 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:

Dude, you signed up a throw away account on a random video game forum just to "leak" this. You're full of ballsicles.


There's nothing I can say to convince you, but I am most certainly not full of 'ballsicles'. As I said, you'll see on the 29th.

There's a lot you could say to convince me.

All you really need to do is take liability for this claim. Put your reputation on the line.


I have no reputation. This is a 'throw away' account, remember?
There is something I can show you which *may* convince you. I'm just worried this will end up all over n4g and gaf within minutes of me putting it up, and it could be pretty easily traced back to my source and thus me.

Look, I have nothing to prove to you. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. Go ahead, assume I'm lying, I really, really don't care. But come the 29th, you'll be singing a very different tune.



misterymedia on 07 September 2013
DD_Bwest said:
cant tell if its a troll against PS4 fans to worry for 3 weeks, or trolling Xbox fans to get hopes up..

maybe both?


If I were trolling PS4 fans, I'd probably go more along the lines of 'overheating due to small case, so downclock necessary' route. So I could be trolling Xbox fans.

Or I could be telling the truth. I'll see you on the 29th! ;)



DD_Bwest on 07 September 2013



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

Around the Network
JoeTheBro on 07 September 2013
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:

Dude, you signed up a throw away account on a random video game forum just to "leak" this. You're full of ballsicles.


There's nothing I can say to convince you, but I am most certainly not full of 'ballsicles'. As I said, you'll see on the 29th.

There's a lot you could say to convince me.

All you really need to do is take liability for this claim. Put your reputation on the line.


I have no reputation. This is a 'throw away' account, remember?
There is something I can show you which *may* convince you. I'm just worried this will end up all over n4g and gaf within minutes of me putting it up, and it could be pretty easily traced back to my source and thus me.

Look, I have nothing to prove to you. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. Go ahead, assume I'm lying, I really, really don't care. But come the 29th, you'll be singing a very different tune.

If you really didn't care, why did you bother making this account?

PM me your thing or even email it to my company email if you're worried. See, that puts me in a liable position. You'd know exactly who I am. If I shared it, you'd know who to call out. I am NOT in a position to get Microsoft mad at me or my company.



Links

hinch on 07 September 2013
misterymedia said:
Hi

I've just registered on this forum.

I'm going to banned for saying this, but none of this post is false in anyway. I am not an Xbox fanboy, I do not own an Xbox and never have. The last console I bought was a launch PS3 which I stopped using after MGS4. I do however, work in the tech industry and my job involves the production of silicon wafers (not for consoles).

On the 29th of September you will realize that the rumors that have been flying around regarding a dGPU are entirely true.

A very reliable source from a well known first party developer (who are creating a title for the xbox one's launch) who I've known for a while mentioned that Microsoft had granted them a higher level access from the devkits than almost all other developers. When combined with the APU, the amount of performance in TFLOPs rises from 1.41 to somewhere closer to 3.2 (ish). It's not quite the 5.31tf+ that Misterxmedia is predicting, but some of what he says is true.

He also told me that the dGPU is the reason the console is fairly large. That one die needed massive cooling to begin with. The CPU was also initially clocked at 1.35ghz in the first dev kits to be issued in 'console' form, to offset heat-production from the GPU components of the APU and the dGPU. A massive cooling solution was used to control temps and that's why vents were placed directly above it, to ensure good airflow. It turns out after testing, the heatsink/fan was more than capable to cool the entire die at '100% theoretical load', something that applications would hardly demand. That's what warranted the increased clocks.

I also learned that while 53mhz+ was applied to the GPU core in the APU, it was not applied to the dGPU. This was because the dGPU was already running at 853mhz. What's odd is that the dGPU is granted higher bandwidths to the ESRAM than the GPU core on the APU. No reason was given as to why, and I don't want to pretend like I know.

The NDA is pretty much spot on. But please, don't take my word for it. You'll find out pretty much from the source on the 29th (or possibly the day after depending on how Msoft and mjrnelson or penello want to announce it!).

Look forward to it!

Are you MisterXMedia by any chance? xD



Machiavellian on 07 September 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Machiavellian said:
Remember the Cell SPUs are considered co-processor and they were used to offload task away from the PS3 GPU.  You already see the results of how well that worked out for Sony (at least for their 1st party). Depending on what task the co-processors are used for, they can make a solid difference in performance.  Without any info on what the processor do, I will not speculate as to the difference they can make only that the possibility exist.  

Lets break down the difference between the X1 GPU and the PS4.  I will limit this to just the CU or Sharder cores as that’s were the big difference in TFlops comes into play.  The X1 has 12 CUs and the PS4 has 18.  CUs are generally used to process shaders.  Since that’s a parallel process, the PS4 can execute more shaders at one time then the X1.  Now from the Hotchips convention some interesting things came out and I was processing the information and thinking about design.  MS has made it so that all parts of the system knows what is happening to a segment of code in memory.  If that is so, then MS can leverage specialize co-processor to handle specific gaming code where it would be more process intensive for the GPU or CPU to handle.  

 

Do not forget that GPUs are designed as an add on to a system not as being the main CPU.  What I am getting at is that for efficiency within a closed box, some of the things the GPU does might make more sense to handle with specialize hardware then within the GPU.

As for Albert statements, he is a PR guy so you will always take their comments with a grain of salt.  Interesting enough him commenting on Neograf where he knows his comments are going to get a lot of push back.  Most PR people know where to pick their battles so him making his statements on Gaf says that either he loves contention or MS has a few tricks up their sleeve.

As for Tflops, do you know that the PS3 is stated as having 2.1 TFlops compared to the 1.8TFlops of the PS4.  As a measuring tool for the performance of these 2 devices, the Tflop number really might not be the difference maker.


the tflops number becomes more reliable and worthwhile comparing when the systems have near identical hardware...

We not comparing a Nvidia GPU core to an AMD core...they both have GCN cores. They both have the exact same CPU. Those are the two core components of the system.

And yes we dont know that much about the co-processors but again it cant replace conventional CPU's or GPU's....using the cell as an example is not exatcly a positive thing. The SPU's were only good and well utilised under very strict circumstances. When devs started coding on the PS3 they flat out ignored the SPU's. These co-processors seems to have a set function...so it doesnt give the dev much flexibility either.

But agian i feel like you tring to argue that these co-processors will have a great impact on increasing overall system performance. Whereas, i see it more as a way to maximise the efficiency of the system. And when comparing the two systems...the PS4 also has co-processors or is that a non issue? I've said this three times now but you never actually address that. Do you not agree or ?

I will agree that the Tflops makes much more of a difference when comparing like for like hardware.  In this case the GPU in the X1 definitely a much weaker part to the one in the PS4, no doubt about it.  The CPU is something different.  Thought the parts are the same, the difference between bandwidth and access are different in the X1 to make for a much superior CPU.  The area where thing changes is the other parts of the system we cannot get a direct comparison.  The Shape Audio processor pretty much mean audio is free on the X1.  Meaning the CPU doesn't contribute any processing for Audio. Thus its free to do other things.

I am not sure why you keep saying co-processor cannot replace conventional CPU/GPU.  They are not used that way, they are used to offload specific task that a CPU or GPU would do but more efficiently.  The Shape Audio processor is a good example.  Its designed to offload all audio processing from the CPU where it has specialize co-processors of its own to handle audio task.  By itself its a very powerful audio combination that will handle audio functions much better and faster than the CPU.  

The reason developers did not ramp up to the Cell fast enough was Sony fault.  It was Sony that did not provide enough information to developers on how to use the Cell chips until after the PhyreEngine.  At the beginning of the PS3 gen, Sony was very poor with providing tools, libraries and sample code on how to use the Cell.  When multiplat games started to look worst from developers, it kicked Sony into gear that they needed a multiplatform game engine to get developers up to speed faster on the Cell.  

You are right that the PS3 does have co-processors of its own I just do not think they are used for anything besides Audio and decompression and compression video.  I have no clue what MS is doing with the additional processors, No one does.  What I am stating is that without any info, there are many possibilities. 

My argument is that MS made a statement that is hard to define just by only comparing the GPU specs.  There are many different ways to skin a cat and co-processors are one.  You cannot dismiss their importance until we find out what they are used for.  I have a few ideals light lighting, physics, and animation but we shall see.



misterymedia on 07 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:
misterymedia said:
JoeTheBro said:

Dude, you signed up a throw away account on a random video game forum just to "leak" this. You're full of ballsicles.


There's nothing I can say to convince you, but I am most certainly not full of 'ballsicles'. As I said, you'll see on the 29th.

There's a lot you could say to convince me.

All you really need to do is take liability for this claim. Put your reputation on the line.


I have no reputation. This is a 'throw away' account, remember?
There is something I can show you which *may* convince you. I'm just worried this will end up all over n4g and gaf within minutes of me putting it up, and it could be pretty easily traced back to my source and thus me.

Look, I have nothing to prove to you. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. Go ahead, assume I'm lying, I really, really don't care. But come the 29th, you'll be singing a very different tune.

If you really didn't care, why did you bother making this account?

PM me your thing or even email it to my company email if you're worried. See, that puts me in a liable position. You'd know exactly who I am. If I shared it, you'd know who to call out. I am NOT in a position to get Microsoft mad at me or my company.

Because I sort of wanted this to happen. It's fun watching people argue about a rumour when you genuinely know what the outcome will be.

I'm not going to use the PM system. I'll send it to you via email soon. Just need to blank out some station details, cuz when you do inevitably splash it over here and n4g and whatever get their hands on it, at least they won't be able to identify what station it came from.



misterymedia on 07 September 2013
hinch said:
misterymedia said:
Hi

I've just registered on this forum.

I'm going to banned for saying this, but none of this post is false in anyway. I am not an Xbox fanboy, I do not own an Xbox and never have. The last console I bought was a launch PS3 which I stopped using after MGS4. I do however, work in the tech industry and my job involves the production of silicon wafers (not for consoles).

On the 29th of September you will realize that the rumors that have been flying around regarding a dGPU are entirely true.

A very reliable source from a well known first party developer (who are creating a title for the xbox one's launch) who I've known for a while mentioned that Microsoft had granted them a higher level access from the devkits than almost all other developers. When combined with the APU, the amount of performance in TFLOPs rises from 1.41 to somewhere closer to 3.2 (ish). It's not quite the 5.31tf+ that Misterxmedia is predicting, but some of what he says is true.

He also told me that the dGPU is the reason the console is fairly large. That one die needed massive cooling to begin with. The CPU was also initially clocked at 1.35ghz in the first dev kits to be issued in 'console' form, to offset heat-production from the GPU components of the APU and the dGPU. A massive cooling solution was used to control temps and that's why vents were placed directly above it, to ensure good airflow. It turns out after testing, the heatsink/fan was more than capable to cool the entire die at '100% theoretical load', something that applications would hardly demand. That's what warranted the increased clocks.

I also learned that while 53mhz+ was applied to the GPU core in the APU, it was not applied to the dGPU. This was because the dGPU was already running at 853mhz. What's odd is that the dGPU is granted higher bandwidths to the ESRAM than the GPU core on the APU. No reason was given as to why, and I don't want to pretend like I know.

The NDA is pretty much spot on. But please, don't take my word for it. You'll find out pretty much from the source on the 29th (or possibly the day after depending on how Msoft and mjrnelson or penello want to announce it!).

Look forward to it!

Are you MisterXMedia by any chance? xD


No. I just saw his posts and decided that I might as well use a variant. He ( or she!?) has roughly the right idea, but he's blowing it way out of proportion. 5.31tf? That's a joke, I don't know how he worked that out.