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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - [UPDATE] Xbox One Could Possibly Feature a Powerful Discrete GPU + APU rumor - New Sources and Info!

Adinnieken said:
ethomaz said:

1. Wrong... eSRAM is not coherent.
2. I was the first to say the CPU will increse... my prediction was 1.7Ghz.
3. No. Xbone didn't have 8GB extra RAM lol.

Sorry what world did you live?

1.  It is.  Just separately from the DRAM.  Look at the layout.  The CPU can access the eSRAM through the GPU MMU.   The instistance that all memory must share the same coherency is fallacious.  You can have coherency between the GPU and CPU with different types of memory and it still be coherent and hetrogenous.  The only thing it ends up meaning is that there is a copy from DRAM to eSRAM.  But the GPU is capable of reading what the CPU copies to the eSRAM and the CPU is capable of reading what the GPU copied to it.  This isn't even an interpretation of a diagram, this is a stated fact from Microsoft.  They flat out said, if a developer wanted, they could use the eSRAM for the CPU but they didn't know why they would want to.

2.  That acknowledgement had to be forced out of you.  Your argument in that thread changed from "Wrong" to it could possibly be increased, but that acknowledgement only came after you were forced to prove your argument and you couldn't.  You had to acknowledge it was possible.  Your means of calculating the speed was just as wrong as his, however.  There is no means of calculating the processor speed based on the system components.  The memory speed has nothing to do with the actual CPU speed.

3.  Actually it does.  I specifically did not specify what type of RAM, just to see how you'd respond.  But if you look at the SoC layout, there is 8GB of NAND Flash RAM embedded into the SoC.  Granted, that isn't system memory, it's storage memory.  But I didn't specify, I wanted to see if you'd clarify.

Most likely the Flash RAM is for firmware, however it's also possible that it's used for a RAM disk to buffer reads from the HDD.  Similar to a Hybrid HDD.  Making data reads from the HDD faster.

You aren't by any means accurate.  Assuming you are is your own personal interpretation.

I'll openly acknowledge (and I have previously) that I'm skeptical of this rumor, but it is equally plausible.  That said, I think you think way too much of yourself and your analytical skills.  The thread is a rumor thread open to speculation, it's one thing to shoot down someone's ideas with a logical argument where you offer evidence to support your opinion.  It is another thing to just shoot down someone else's argument.   Having an opinion doesn't make you right.  Providing evidence backup and support your opinion makes you right.

In general, you lack the evidence to backup or support your opinion.

You sound desperate! Try reading what you have written as a normal person and not a fanboy and you'll realise even a village idiot would come to the conclusion there is no 2nd GPU. Its not even remotely plausible! LMFAO!

Actually keep on telling yourself its true and maybe on the 29th it might......................................................

LMFAO again



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adding LMFAO to your post doesn't make you right at all.



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Adinnieken said:
ethomaz said:

1. Wrong... eSRAM is not coherent.
2. I was the first to say the CPU will increse... my prediction was 1.7Ghz.
3. No. Xbone didn't have 8GB extra RAM lol.

Sorry what world did you live?

1.  It is.  Just separately from the DRAM.  Look at the layout.  The CPU can access the eSRAM through the GPU MMU.   The instistance that all memory must share the same coherency is fallacious.  You can have coherency between the GPU and CPU with different types of memory and it still be coherent and hetrogenous.  The only thing it ends up meaning is that there is a copy from DRAM to eSRAM.  But the GPU is capable of reading what the CPU copies to the eSRAM and the CPU is capable of reading what the GPU copied to it.  This isn't even an interpretation of a diagram, this is a stated fact from Microsoft.  They flat out said, if a developer wanted, they could use the eSRAM for the CPU but they didn't know why they would want to.

2.  That acknowledgement had to be forced out of you.  Your argument in that thread changed from "Wrong" to it could possibly be increased, but that acknowledgement only came after you were forced to prove your argument and you couldn't.  You had to acknowledge it was possible.  Your means of calculating the speed was just as wrong as his, however.  There is no means of calculating the processor speed based on the system components.  The memory speed has nothing to do with the actual CPU speed.

3.  Actually it does.  I specifically did not specify what type of RAM, just to see how you'd respond.  But if you look at the SoC layout, there is 8GB of NAND Flash RAM embedded into the SoC.  Granted, that isn't system memory, it's storage memory.  But I didn't specify, I wanted to see if you'd clarify.

Most likely the Flash RAM is for firmware, however it's also possible that it's used for a RAM disk to buffer reads from the HDD.  Similar to a Hybrid HDD.  Making data reads from the HDD faster.

You aren't by any means accurate.  Assuming you are is your own personal interpretation.

I'll openly acknowledge (and I have previously) that I'm skeptical of this rumor, but it is equally plausible.  That said, I think you think way too much of yourself and your analytical skills.  The thread is a rumor thread open to speculation, it's one thing to shoot down someone's ideas with a logical argument where you offer evidence to support your opinion.  It is another thing to just shoot down someone else's argument.   Having an opinion doesn't make you right.  Providing evidence backup and support your opinion makes you right.

In general, you lack the evidence to backup or support your opinion.

didn't post here or on the other CPU thread, but i did read them (at least a big part of it)

1 this coherent or not its not a big deal, and i did not research enough to give a opinion.

2 like i said before, i read the  thread and in no where ethomaz did say MS would not raise the expected 1.6 Ghz speed of the CPU. all he said was that the argument semi accurate use was wrong and that, this argument, was not a valid reason to calculate the CPU speed. Ethomaz was right.

3 NAND flash memory is not RAM. RAM is , Random access memory and is volatile, NAND is sequential (no random) and not volatile. and we all know, its apples and oranges.
when ethomaz did say it wouldn't have more RAM beyond the rumored 8 GBs of RAM, maybe, he was talking about actual RAM... can you believe that?

i am not condoning any of ethomaz sayings or behavior, but you are trying to trick and mislead other to think ethomaz is a liar, with false arguments/premises



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I remember when the 1.23 tflops rumors began to pop up, I said they'll thrown in an additional GPU to compensate and bring things to about 2.2 - 2.4 tflops (or maybe I didn't say those exact numbers, I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure I said it would be comfortably over the PS4). Would be interesting if that actually ends up being the case, and also make better sense of the price situation.



well id much prefer the lowest common denominator to be the PS4..with its almost 2tflps of theoretical computational power.

As it stands now PC and to a lesser extent ps4 games will be gimped, with Xbone's theoretical computational power significantly lower than that of the PS4.

Multiplats will probably target Xbone hardware first then scale higher.



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This is all possible to some degree. Thing is though there is more to the gpu now anyway. The co processors take alot of stuff off the core gpu that the ps4 core gpu has to do. The gpu set ups are completely different. Its not about tflops of the core gpu. Also people think Microsoft have increas clock power because of ps4. Its not at all. Back in may at the reveal week Microsoft said their yields were better than expected. Nothing to do with reacting to ps4.

they then said xbox one design is not about paper numbers. They designed it differently. Be so funny if the amazing talent for visuals at 343i show halo 5 and it blows everything on console away. Quantum breaks visuals are already absolutely insane. By far best character models in game so far.



If it ends up more powerful than the PS4, it's no less than their obligation, seeing the Xbone is more expensive and bigger.



The Xbox One is possibly as strong as the PS4.

There.

Even though one can draw a much more simple and believable conjecture not based on as much abstract logic, admittedly on paper. 



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

This isn't impossible, but rather highly unlikely. So don't bring your hopes up.



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''You tend to think that there is a big gap between F1 and everything else. F1 is where all the fantastic drivers are, so you just don't know how good you are until you get there''.                  

 Jean Alesi

Ok so here is a quote from Albert Penello taken from Gaf, for those who want to believe que up some X-Files music and peep the bolded.

 

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance. 



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