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Forums - General - Evidence for the existence of God

Nth on 08 February 2008
Parokki said:
OP's copypasta is really devious. It's convincing enough for people who want to believe it, but at the same time too long for people who know better to tear it up. Definitely too long for me to try debunking first thing in the morning before breakfast. =P


My favorite instance of trying to apply logic to religion was a monk in 11th or 12th century Europe, who used the ancient Greek arts of logic and reason to prove without a shred of doubt that God indeed existed. Apparently he was pretty good as far as medieval thinkers go.

However, the time wasn't quite ready for him, and he was accused of heresy because "only the Bible may be used to justify Bible!" A century earlier he might've been in more serious trouble, but managed to get out of it by renouncing his heresies and burning his books.

 I believe that the person you are referring to is Origen Adamantius.

And his theories on the existence of God were not what got him in trouble with the church it was because he believed that trinity was more of a heirarchy instead of a unity of three overlapping entities.

He believed that God The Father was Creation and this the essence of the universe that brought forth life
He believe that God The Son was the Theos or knowledge of God manifest. The truth that lives but lower than the Father.
He also believed that God the Spirit was the essence which drives the universe and this keeps the whole thing going.

He did not think they were parallel with each other but instead were divided in descending order of Father, Son, Spirit. This did not jive well with the church and thus they thought it was heresy and claimed that He and all of his teachings were Anathema. To be honest I do not think that his philisophical ideas were heretical in nature it was just that they don't jive with the churches creeds. However, many of the Gnostic churches recognize him as "St. Origen" and keep many of his teachings.

Also, his ideas on the existence of God are pretty radical and quite logical if you ask me. He is known as the Grandfather of Christian Philosophy and many of his ideas are pretty good. However, it is his teachings of the Logos that got him a bunch of trouble. It is complicated but just read the entry and you'll see what I mean.

 

All in all, I think that we will never be able to figure out as limited human beings how the whole thing started. I find that it is more logical to believe that we were constructed than to believe that something accidently came from nothing and through chaotic chance (the statistics to figure out how the human body was formed is staggering) and voila! here we are.

 

Anyways, I've given you more wood for the fire. Discuss!

 





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GhaleonUnlimited on 08 February 2008

Telling people you found "Evidence of God" eliminates the need for "faith" ... which is the whole point of religion.



highwaystar101 on 08 February 2008

there is no god...



Garcian Smith on 08 February 2008
cleveland124 said:
Garcian Smith said:
So, to conclude: Take a few classes on logic and check your arguments to see if they've been debunked before (chances are they have) before you try to spout them off as conclusive. Philosophers have been trying to prove the existence of God for millenniums. The chances of you - or someone else with no background in logic - doing so on a message board is infinitesimally small.

Philosophers still have debates today about the existence of God. You brought up a few good points but none as conclusive as you believe. The chances of proving the non-existence of God is just as likely in this thread.


I dont need to "prove the non-existence of God." The burden of proof is on the claimant - that being you. As the defender of the status quo, all I need to do is show why your arguments are wrong. And I have. The errors in logic you made/have been making are things that any first-year philosophy major could see through.

Also: why aren't my points "as conclusive as I believe"? Please, explain to me where I'm wrong, and/or why my counterarguments don't invalidate yours.

At any rate, I'm busy with work right now, but if I have time later, maybe I'll do a write-up on the Trasnscendental Argument. I just glanced over the website that someone provided earlier in the thread, and I already see several glaring flaws to it.



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superchunk on 08 February 2008
CrashMan said:
I would just like to point out that I didn't prove the non-existance of any god, just the christian view of god. I have yet to see or think of a true proof of the non existance of any god.

But I don't believe that we should "Let people believe what they want to believe." I think discussion, debate, and philosophy is important as we should be trying to reach the truth in all issues (by reason, facts, and logic, not from a book)

I have been through the rigors of religion, even argued with athiests when I was younger. But you HAVE to have an open mind and truely consider these things. I have changed what I believe about the issue numerous times because I was open to change and willing to hear all sides. I doubt the same can be said about the religious zealots (no matter what the degree.)

 That's the problem. Most people, regardless of their beliefs, don't have an open mind. It's their way or the highway.

I was raised christian, though it all was crap, spent 10 years of my life researching religion, and now call myself Muslim, however, I don't think we need to follow all of the specific rules. So, many would say I am not "Muslim".

No-one in my family, except one cousin, will stray from what they were raised to believe. All of my older family has called me naive and that I will eventually see the light. Even though I know more about their religion than they do.

Point is out of 1000 people you talk to, maybe one will be open enough to actually hear your ideas and not just push them off as BS. If this were not the case then Jehova's witnesses and Mormans would be the largest religions in the world. Religion is something people hold onto far more than anything else.

So, as I said, God will have to be standing in front of us, telling you exactly how it should be, before the greater majority of people will listen. 



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CrashMan on 08 February 2008

Well if I can provide some insight and another view for 0.1% of the population, I am happy to do so.



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Reasonable on 08 February 2008

Which God are we talking about? Zeus, Apollo, Allah, Christ, L Ron Hubbard?

While there may be a 'Creator' (think more ET than Supernatural Being IMO) the evidence seems pretty overwhelming that any 'God' mentioned in the myriad religions past & present is no more than a fantasy developed specifically for that religion and therefore a product of the human mind.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

NJ5 on 08 February 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o



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highwaystar101 on 08 February 2008
NJ5 said:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

haha that's well funny



vaio on 08 February 2008
NJ5 said:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I´ve seen it before and it´s hilarious, I laughed my ass of the first time I saw this and I still do when ever I hear/see this.



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