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Forums - Gaming Discussion - UNITY - Nintendo & Wii U Finish The REVOLUTION

RedPikmin95 said:

One more thing: The Legend-of-Zelda-Franchise is actually one of the BEST examples proving that Ninty IS a "gamemaker at heart"

Eiji Aonuma talks about their approach when it comes to the development of Zelda games: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2013/09/12/eiji-aonuma-explains-what-makes-wind-waker-different-from-than-any-other-zelda-game/

Excerpts:

"Buried in the back of "Hyrule Historia" Eiji Aonuma closes out the overall history of "Zelda" with a letter to the reader about the book, and his involvement with the series. In it, he notes that "the question the developers of the 'Legend of Zelda' series asked themselves before starting on a game was, 'What kind of game play should we focus on?' rather than "What kind of story should we write?'" This helps to explain why each Zelda game feels different to the player, since that's what comes first, and why the stories are wildly divergent, as those come later."

"He finished up by noting, "I know that there are many games that were created to fit an existing story, and I don’t know that there are that many that have been very successful at it.""

"What I really, really want to create, what my ultimate hope or goal is, to create a game without a story - not to say that the story is nonexistent, but it's a story that isn't already created. It's a story that the player, in interacting with the space or environment, creates. So, a story that is defined by the player, not one that is already prepared, and a game that just kind of follows that path, if that makes sense."

Man, Nintendo really is a GAMEMAKER.

As of now Elder Scrolls gets more sales and is more significant in the mind of gamers.  So, not sure Zelda is as big of a deal.



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richardhutnik said:
johnlucas said:
richardhutnik said:
If one wants to mention the Wii here, it tailing off was an decent part due to it being underpowered. When you don't have sufficient power, and development goes on, your console can't keep up. That is what happened to the Wii, and the Wii U is at risk of similar happening.


PS2 was underpowered compared to the Gamecube & XBox.

Not only did it dominate them on the sales charts it sold for 12 years on the retail shelves.
Try another argument.

Wii stopped selling because Nintendo stopped making games for it. That simple.
How hard is it for people to understand that it's not power that sells systems? ESPECIALLY now.
Is it some kind of recurrent amnesia that strikes with the coming of each generation?

Vita's a PS3 in your hands. Much stronger than the Gamecube-to-Wii powered 3DS.
How come it's not dominating the 3DS?
John Lucas

P.S.: Seriously this power power argument needs to die. History proves it wrong again & again.

Yes, you are right here.  The PS3 and 360 will keep outselling the Wii U, because they have much larger libraries, are cheaper, and you really can't tell the difference between the WiiU and current gen stuff anyhow.  Power doesn't matter at all.  Hey, you are right!  Or, hey, do you want to argue power matters, JUST ENOUGH, so that the Wii U has a reason for people to buy it.

He has a very good point. I think it's all about continued support and market saturation, and not so much about power (I'd say the people who care about power consist of maybe 3 million. 3 million people isn't the mass market). Lets say MS and Sony continue to support PS3 and X360 heavily after the release of their successors. What will happen provided the market isn't saturated? I think it could be an interesting experiment. It would be funny if PS360 continued to outsell WiiUOnePS4:D



richardhutnik said:
I wonder what johnlucas predicts the WiiU would sell, assuming that the PS4 and ONE don't just up and vanish from the market, leaving Nintendo alone.

Which is what he should be predicting because quite frankly neither are going anywhere this gen, it's ludicrus to think otherwise. Again he hasn't even given any reasoning, which is why I think it''s a joke thread. He just thinks this transition is going to happen due to Nintendo releasing Mario and Donkey Kong?? That's all I can gather.

In reality WiiU is gonna struggly to top 2m in the states this holiday, its strongest region, probably 4m sell through WW~ putting it around 8/9mil shipped. There is nothing that that suggests the casuals are going to flood to WiiU this holiday, the price cut is weak and the games are for Nintendo fans, not the ones who bought Wii for its motion controller appeal.



 

Incubi said:
richardhutnik said:
johnlucas said:
richardhutnik said:
If one wants to mention the Wii here, it tailing off was an decent part due to it being underpowered. When you don't have sufficient power, and development goes on, your console can't keep up. That is what happened to the Wii, and the Wii U is at risk of similar happening.


PS2 was underpowered compared to the Gamecube & XBox.

Not only did it dominate them on the sales charts it sold for 12 years on the retail shelves.
Try another argument.

Wii stopped selling because Nintendo stopped making games for it. That simple.
How hard is it for people to understand that it's not power that sells systems? ESPECIALLY now.
Is it some kind of recurrent amnesia that strikes with the coming of each generation?

Vita's a PS3 in your hands. Much stronger than the Gamecube-to-Wii powered 3DS.
How come it's not dominating the 3DS?
John Lucas

P.S.: Seriously this power power argument needs to die. History proves it wrong again & again.

Yes, you are right here.  The PS3 and 360 will keep outselling the Wii U, because they have much larger libraries, are cheaper, and you really can't tell the difference between the WiiU and current gen stuff anyhow.  Power doesn't matter at all.  Hey, you are right!  Or, hey, do you want to argue power matters, JUST ENOUGH, so that the Wii U has a reason for people to buy it.

He has a very good point. I think it's all about continued support and market saturation, and not so much about power (I'd say the people who care about power consist of maybe 3 million. 3 million people isn't the mass market). Lets say MS and Sony continue to support PS3 and X360 heavily after the release of their successors. What will happen provided the market isn't saturated? I think it could be an interesting experiment. It would be funny if PS360 continued to outsell WiiUOnePS4:D

Companies care about the power (Bethesda, Take Two) thus a lot more gamers care about it indirectly, that and it's getting annoying certain people just assuming power = graphics and nothing else.

Do some people not grasp the overall package Sony and Microsoft offer with their systems and online services? Is it really as cut and dry as graphics and simply 'having online' to some people? Embarassing.



 

Seece said:
Incubi said:
richardhutnik said:
johnlucas said:
richardhutnik said:
If one wants to mention the Wii here, it tailing off was an decent part due to it being underpowered. When you don't have sufficient power, and development goes on, your console can't keep up. That is what happened to the Wii, and the Wii U is at risk of similar happening.


PS2 was underpowered compared to the Gamecube & XBox.

Not only did it dominate them on the sales charts it sold for 12 years on the retail shelves.
Try another argument.

Wii stopped selling because Nintendo stopped making games for it. That simple.
How hard is it for people to understand that it's not power that sells systems? ESPECIALLY now.
Is it some kind of recurrent amnesia that strikes with the coming of each generation?

Vita's a PS3 in your hands. Much stronger than the Gamecube-to-Wii powered 3DS.
How come it's not dominating the 3DS?
John Lucas

P.S.: Seriously this power power argument needs to die. History proves it wrong again & again.

Yes, you are right here.  The PS3 and 360 will keep outselling the Wii U, because they have much larger libraries, are cheaper, and you really can't tell the difference between the WiiU and current gen stuff anyhow.  Power doesn't matter at all.  Hey, you are right!  Or, hey, do you want to argue power matters, JUST ENOUGH, so that the Wii U has a reason for people to buy it.

He has a very good point. I think it's all about continued support and market saturation, and not so much about power (I'd say the people who care about power consist of maybe 3 million. 3 million people isn't the mass market). Lets say MS and Sony continue to support PS3 and X360 heavily after the release of their successors. What will happen provided the market isn't saturated? I think it could be an interesting experiment. It would be funny if PS360 continued to outsell WiiUOnePS4:D

Companies care about the power (Bethesda, Take Two) thus a lot more gamers care about it indirectly, that and it's getting annoying certain people just assuming power = graphics and nothing else.

Do some people not grasp the overall package Sony and Microsoft offer with their systems and online services? Is it really as cut and dry as graphics and simply 'having online' to some people? Embarassing.

Ofcource, as a developer I'd prefer to work on cutting edge technology instead of outdated hardware. So in that respect, you are ofcource right. 

I will also argue against John in how power matters from a gameplay perspective. A recent one is actually: Super Mario Bros. Wii to Super Mario Bros U.

SMB.U can be really intense as you are sometimes swarmed with a ridiculous amount of enemies at the same time. That was a real: WHOA! OMGWTF! Aaaah! when I played through it with a buddy of mine. That is something that could never happen in SMB.Wii and a totally fresh 2D mario experience. That is an example for how Nintendo used increased power to give a new 2D Mario Bros. experience that i'd think John would be able to resonate with. 



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Seece said:
richardhutnik said:
I wonder what johnlucas predicts the WiiU would sell, assuming that the PS4 and ONE don't just up and vanish from the market, leaving Nintendo alone.

Which is what he should be predicting because quite frankly neither are going anywhere this gen, it's ludicrus to think otherwise. Again he hasn't even given any reasoning, which is why I think it''s a joke thread. He just thinks this transition is going to happen due to Nintendo releasing Mario and Donkey Kong?? That's all I can gather.

In reality WiiU is gonna struggly to top 2m in the states this holiday, its strongest region, probably 4m sell through WW~ putting it around 8/9mil shipped. There is nothing that that suggests the casuals are going to flood to WiiU this holiday, the price cut is weak and the games are for Nintendo fans, not the ones who bought Wii for its motion controller appeal.

If johnlucas were predicting sales of Nintendo's next home console after this upcoming generation and after the Wii U, no way would I even get near that.  There is WAY too much not known.  I personally hate getting into the predicing game, because too much weird stuff can happen that makes everyone look bad.  I can now see a scenario happening when the 3DS and WiiU come together in a single tablet, due to the 2DS coming out.  This would be an integrated system for home and portable that I have no idea how well it would do, particularly if it goes all digital download.  I now see this happening.  I did not see it before the 2DS.  Nintendo has been telegraphing what its future moves might be, based on what they do at a given time.  The DS telegraphed the Wii U, for example.

What I saw from johnlucas is predictions of an upcoming crash, presumptions Nintendo escapes unharmed, and Nintendo being the ONLY option for gamers, so third party MUST return to Nintendo, and they will be humbled and forced to bow to Nintendo's wishes, because they won't have other options.  Assuming you take out Microsoft and Sony, you still have PC and Android.  Apple could also decide to enter the market also.  SOMEONE will enter if Microsoft and Sony drop out, so no way Nintendo gets the market alone,  Thus the 240 million lifetime isn't happening for the WiiU.



12m before the end of the year..? No chance. Should do over 8m though.



johnlucas said:

The argument is that the games MARKET on this platform is not healthy long-term.
And since we live in a money-based civilization, if the companies making the games for these phones & tablets can't stay financially viable, then there ain't gonna be any more games put out on the platform.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/x360-aaron-greenberg-industry-growth

$8 billion revenue from handhelds

$10 billion revenue from smartphone/tablets, steadily growing with an exploding hardware base.

So the mobile market is not healthy?

And $12 billion revenue comes from PC games, $20 billion if you include browser games.

The $27 billion revenue include 360, PS3, Wii and WiiU sales, no platform on its own can compete with the pc games revenues.



Conina said:
johnlucas said:

The argument is that the games MARKET on this platform is not healthy long-term.
And since we live in a money-based civilization, if the companies making the games for these phones & tablets can't stay financially viable, then there ain't gonna be any more games put out on the platform.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/x360-aaron-greenberg-industry-growth

$8 billion revenue from handhelds

$10 billion revenue from smartphone/tablets, steadily growing with an exploding hardware base.

So the mobile market is not healthy?

And $12 billion revenue comes from PC games, $20 billion if you include browser games.

The $27 billion revenue include 360, PS3, Wii and WiiU sales, no platform on its own can compete with the pc games revenues.

Problem isn't the revenues, thought they had declined the past few years.  The problem is the costs.  They are driving costs up and up.



richardhutnik said:

Problem isn't the revenues, thought they had declined the past few years.

Which revenues have declined in the last few years? Revenue of the AppStore?

And Google Play is growing even faster the last year, probably will close the gap the next 2 years.