It's been sold out before in different venues. It mostly means that they almost haven't shipped a single unit for the entire year, at one point there were even stores sending shipments back that dated all the way back to the launch window.

200-220k worldwide on the week ending 14th and then perhaps 240-250k on the next and then down to 150k or below, is my guess.

The problem with this is that we don't really know how many units Nintendo has shipped to these outlets. It might be sold out but if they're only a stocking a few WiiUs per store then it's not too impressive. In fact I'm pretty sure this happened because most retailers are clearing WiiU shelf space for PS4 and XBO and there's not much stock to go around. Or maybe the revolution has begun, we'll have to wait for December NPD figures before knowing for sure. 

Why would it begin now of all times? Surely Black Friday + Mario would have seen it start? Like others have said, low on stock.

Also, you have to remember that we don't know the actual numbers. This could very well be caused by low stock.

Then it seems I haven't misunderstood your comment. I know that you don't think he is corrupting anyone's mind. That's why I said "you have faith in the human mind to not let that happen". To think, to have faith...same thing man. But that doesn't mean he doesn't try. That's why I said "John Lucas attempts to pervert the minds of hordes and children in order to lead them into a false Nintendopia". And then I asked you, since you praise John Luca's posts, "aren't you falling into that false Nintendopia you've mentioned?" Why have I asked it? Because of my questions about the 2 examples of John Luca's reasoning that you have already skipped twice: 1st because of no aparent reason and now because you aparently are unable to read my previous post (it's all there). My question was "those examples make sense for you?". My examples were:

1 - Iwata says something like "We want everybody to play Wii". John Lucas deduces "They designed the Wii for everybody". Does this make sense for you? For me it's just salesman's talk.

2 - John Lucas predicts 12M for the Wii U this year (presumably an insane prediction). Wii U sells much less than that (it was really an insane prediction). John Lucas raises his prediction for 2014 (equally insane) in order to accommodate the 2013's gap between his prediction and reality (resulting into an ultra-insane prediction). Does this make sense for you? For me it's just inability to accept the truth.

Since we are talking about John Lucas' reasoning and you say he does make sense (it's just that I don't share his opinions), then tell me also 3 points John Lucas made that Mummelmann fails to see. Why am I asking you to address these 2 + 3 points? Because I still don't believe someone trully thinks John Lucas is a good poster. Maybe you prove me wrong with these 5 tangible points instead of keep on saying his posts make sense.

I'll answer because I promised I would, but let the record show that I don't think posts like these deserve a response. Anyway, on to the answer

I don't think John Lucas is trying to pervert the minds of children, I don't think he's audience is full of children, I don't think he is some evil David Korresh trying to build a cult of Nintendrones and if he is, I have faith in the average human to be able to read and understand what he is saying andf make an informed decission. If someone should get a little carried away with the rethoric I don't think that's in any way a disaster and in essence not much different than seeing how some of Mummelmanns points are immidiatly parroted by some people who are not huge John Lucas fans. Or to put it this way: when I get the time and money to start getting more involved in cheritable work, counteracting the destructive influence of John Lucas on our nations young will be very very very low on my list of problems to address.

1. Yeah, I think it makes perfect sense. Nitendo is fairly consistent in their messaing that they develop games for everyone. Just like I think Sony and Microsoft also would love to be able to draw customers from the entire gaming population. I am having a hard time understanding what is even controversial in that statement. Of course, you don't have to agree but to claim that it makes no sense to take Nintendo's consitent message and actions at face value is pretty out there.

2. As I've said in the thread before. I don't view the predictions as hard numbers. They represent a meteoric turnaround. What John Lucas is trying to illustrate the way I see it is that while the turn around for the Wii U started later than he predicted, it will still happen. Completely understandable reasoning. Is it likely to come true? No, I don't think so, but it's not that difficult to understand the point he is making.

Your final request is extra strange. I regret promising you an answer, but here we go:

There doesn't have to be one guy who gets it and one who is wrong. Both Mummelmann and John Lucas can both make perfect sense in their arguments and still get to the exact opposite conclusions. For an argument to make sense, all you need is to have a clear path from premise to conclusion. I understand that the cloudy language John Lucas uses can make it a little harder to follow the thread, but it's there.

Anyway, three things John Lucas has claimed that is based of an argument you can follow:

a. Poor sales of the PS4 will force Sony out of the console making business and 3rd parties will then start to publish on both MS and Nintendo platforms.

The line of reasoning is easy to follow. What does he get right? There is a very real possibility of Sony not being able to survive the generation, Sony has sort of hinted at it themselves. Where does it go wrong: Sony's demise does not guarantee Nintendo support. It can just as well lead to massive gains for MS, open the door for other players or just cause a general severe downturn in the entire market. Or a number of other possible outcomes.

b. Nintendo has 'poisioned the water' and forced both MS and Sony to rush release PC like machines that will erode the value proposition of their machines.

What does he get right? I can see a future where consoles that are not different from PC in meaningful ways will disappear. Where does it go wrong: I don't think the architectures of MS and Sony were influenced by Nintendo's early launch that much. I think Nintendo lucked into that situation more than it being a concious plan.

c. With full 3rd party support Nintendo will dominate the industry on the strength of their superior quality games.

What does he get right? Nintendo is the best game maker and a fully supported Nintendo machine will likely have considerable appeal in the market. Where does it go wrong? Quality is not the only factor deciding what consumers buy. The gaming industry is moving away from great game making towards spectacular visuals and 'compelling' stories that evoke strong emotions. MS and Sony deliver these games better than Nintendo and there's a large segment of the market that will select Uncharted over Mario Kart even if the rest of the game library is the same. 

So, why do I think John Lucas is a good poster? (I think Mummelmann is a good poster as well by the way) Because he represent something original on these forums. He employs a much more litteral writing style than what most people on this forum is even capable of, as evidenced by extensive use of metaphors, some more useful than others. There is almost no other instances of this in the forums that I know of, and noone who does it with the skill and flair of John Lucas. On top of that, he represents original ideas. For example the theory of Nintendo poisioning the water with the Wii U. It's an idea that I have not heard of anywhere else, in other words, a fresh thought. I don't think he is right, but some of the implications are very interesting and at the very least it is a fresh thought to be discussed, which is something that is in dire short supply on these forums.

So, there's your answers. I don't feel like going into any more detail about it, so please don't try to make this into a 10 page back and fort with points lists of points 1.a.II.1 through 9.f.IV like you did with Final Fan. Feel free to point out why you think what I say is pants, but don't expect much more of a reply from me.

The moment we stop making justice just because there's a greater injustice out there (and there always is), we just stop making justice at all.

Really? It's pretty obvious. Unlike you said ("Nitendo is fairly consistent in their messaing that they develop games for everyone"), Iwata said they wanted everybody to play the Wii. And if you read my posts you would see I had emphasized that it's easy to wish the consumer's money, much harder is to deserve it. John Lucas deduced that just because they said such thing it means they've designed the Wii for everyone.

You should, but you don't even need to see it as hard numbers to understand the insane logic behind this. See: if I'm predicting some trend and the 1st step fails hard, why would I raise the level of the 2nd step? The turnaround started later (let's suppose it's true) but why would the 2nd step start earlier?? And John Lucas put that almost as cause & effect!

Your main comments about Mummelmann's posts: "this is pretty weak coming from you" ; "you are getting sidetracked and caught up in the mass of words rather than focus on the issue" ; "You are threading awfully close to falling victim to some of your own critisism by now starting to frame the discussion as one being about John Lucas' personality" ; "I think I know what you are trying to achieve by that strategy, but I think it is a weak play."

Your main comments about John Lucas' posts: "it's grandiose and extravagant" ; "I enjoy John Lucas' style of writing" ; "great break from the usual drivel you find in these forums".

Can't you get 3 points from a grandiose poster with an insteresting style of writing and innovative ideas that a guy with weak posts, weak play, not focused on the issue and victim of his own criticism failed to achieve?

That's not what I asked. And, by the way, in all the 3 points you presented you acknowledge gaps too. I guess we can find 3 points with pros and cons in every poster of this site (any bad poster has pros and any good poster has cons). So they prove nothing.

I hope the above 16 lines of text fit into your demands of less than 10-page reply. They're one third of your comment and much much shorter than John Lucas' posts that you take the time to read.

You must be the hardest working Norwegian since the Vikings. 

Naive leftist!

What??