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Forums - Gaming - Why are JRPG's still being built the way they are? ( long read)

My very first JRPG was Final Fantasy 4 (2 on the SNES) and after finally beating it ( my biggest accompishment at that time) I knew I wanted to play every game like it. From that point on I made a personal mission to play as many JRPG'as I coud get my hand's. My PS1,PS2,GBA and DS collection's are composed primarily of JRPG's. I actually own over 90% of the JRPG's released stateside for PS1 and PS2 around 85%. That's how crazy I was about them at the time. It became quite the shock when I lost complete interest (not love) for the genre sometime in 2011.  I have recently gotten into playing them again with Final Fantasy 13-2, but I have played a certain JRPG in that downtime that has changed that way I view 13-2 and previous JRPG's this current generation and utiamtely answering the question at why I lost interest in JRPG's.

JRPG's have lot's of issues. I dont want to call them problem's because its just a matter of taste most of the time like the abundance of Otaku level Anime or turn based vs Action. I dont mind anime to a certain degree in JRPG's but can understand why someone would be turned off by an under dressed Loli pop. I going to be focused on 2 issues that I believe are definite problem's and must be worked on or JRPG's wi never regain their popularity. I'm going to be using Final Fantasy 13-2 as an example in most of this write up not because I'm picking on this game but because of its status as the defacto JRPG series. If it has these problem's it can be assumed every other JRPG is too.

The first problem is the failure of current day JRPG's to instill a sense of a grand adventure on the player. I dont feel that I'm on a adventure in neither of the of the 13 series game's or any console JRPG in general and this has to do with the way JRPG's are structured. During the PS2 age SE set the stage for interconnected maps in favor of an overword map used up till then. This worked with Final Fantasy X because it complimented the pigramage story that was told. It does not lend itsef well to exporation/adventure. Original 13 was literally just one straight path with minor detours...sometime. 13-2 tried to fix this by opening up the area's ... now it's just 11 map's composed of small boring boxes. I hate to 100% map's in 13-2 because the world is boring with nothing of interest happening in them. How many people here have payed Dragon Quest Vlll? Now that is a JRPG that know's how to make you feel like you are on a adventure. It made me want to explore every area just to see what was there and if it was nothing that was fine because it was still satisfying  and combine that with the fact you dont have a map initially, you cant save anywhere, you are always short on money so you have to make sure to stock up and buy equipment in a smart fashion .. it just satisfying. Another example is the Wild Arms series by SONY/Media. Vision. In the first 3 titles your character has a radar that is used to locate things on the map. Your going to need that because every area of the map his hidden untill you locate it and there are tons of optional area's in Wild Arms. Why are JRPG's still using this stupid map crap instead adopting overworld's but in real time. The technology is there.

2nd problem. Not ony does world structure suck in current JRPG's they are still being designed to be nothing but static, un interactive, eye candy that your character is just suppose to run through. In Final Fantasy 13-2 you are given a jump button that I guess was suppose to add flexibility to way you get around.... no. 13-2 is so silly about how they let use jump. Let's say you run up 2 flight's of stairs and you are able to look down at the bottom floor... you cant jump down though the map indicate's walkable area if they were to allow you.... but you can jump up 20 feet high wall's.... but she must find another way around waist high pillar. Why? Why are JRPG's still held down by stupid boundaries like this? The city map in 13-2 initially had me excited. I couldnt wait to wak around..unti I realized non the buildings were rea and alot of the scenery was just   to look at. One awesome JRPG not on an HD system introduced the mindset of if you can see it you can there. You can touch. No longer are bodies of water just cock block eye candy. You can swim through them. You can walk inbetween objects, theres weather, day and night. The sense of life and things happening in that game's world is awesome. Why has a non HD system JRPG been abe to create the best world in a JRPG?

So then I continousy ask why JRPG's are still being built this way. The answer is simple, Japan develop's their RPG's as if they were still held back by some technology hurdle ike on PS1,PS2, or SNES. I dont care about western game development but when they say Japan is behind in technology..this is what they mean. Xenoblade is the best JRPG this generation based primarily on the fact that it takes the step forward in genre.  Xenoblade is the new bottom line for JRPG's. All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.

Currenty I am ony excited for 3 JRPG's: X , Lightning Returns, and Final Fantasy 15 as all of them look to adopt the design introduced in Xenoblade. We see in FF15 enviornments being destroyed or used against the enemy. It was hinted at that in 15 we will be able to fly the airship in real time..how awesome is that?  Nomura said his main gaol with 15 is to redefine JRPG's. I stand right by him. In X, the mech's are rendered in real time and you can actually fly them around and it world looks huge. In Lighntning returns cool features like being able to jump down floors for faster transportation, you can walk all the way around and back on foot if you wanted...species extinction.  I have Graces, Atelier series, and will get the Xillia series. I doubt I'll play them though. I sure I leave PS3 with less than half of all released stateside JRPG's as well

 

 

 



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Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.



RolStoppable said:
First problem is caused by the developers' desire to tell a story. The more control you take away from the player, the better a story you can tell (in theory, doesn't mean the story will actually be good).

Second problem is related to that, because if developers already chose to focus so much on the story, then they won't put much effort into optional areas, because it would just distract the player from the things that really matter (to the developers).

It's really not technology that is responsible for the wrong design approach, it's the ill-belief that story is the defining trait of the JRPG. Sure, players have enjoyed stories in JRPGs, but the gameplay-driven feeling of growth over the course of the games played a much bigger role in the appeal of the JRPG genre, as well as the freedom to explore (or at least the illusion of freedom, because most games were still quite linear in the end).

Absolutely this. The new new trend is open world, which they claim will fix all of this, but:

- They still want to tell that story, so it'll be the GTA model of "come back when you get bored with your pointless exploring for some more cutscenes and railroading"

- Since they still don't care about that part, the open world will be a big empty husk. Like Twilight Princess overworld. You know when they speeded up the MGS trailer at E3? You don't get to do that in the actual game.

- Since they think the linearity complaint is purely about the world structure, they'll make no concession to "the illusion of freedom" - the feeling of wonder from exploring, of player empowerment and meaning. They'll just say, we gave you ten paths, why aren't you happy?

Leading to:

- Inevitable backlash from the huge cost of open world combined with no more success because the fundamentals weren't actually dealt with



Fayceless said:
Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.


How did you come to the conclusion that adopting features that give more life to the environment's will up end with the same game but a different story? If Tales of something came out, then Persons 5 came out and both had a weather, day and night, interactive environment's how that make them the same? On the flip side, why aren't they the same now?



JRPGs really needed to take elements from other genres like WRPGs did and evolve instead of relying on the same staples.

Xenoblade really showed how incompetent a lot of Square's games this gen were. By far the most "modernized" JPRG of the gen. And that was on the gaddang Wee with likely less than 1/5th of FF13's budget.

Now if only it was easier for other people to actually get their hands on it and play some. Stupid NOA.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

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Otakumegane said:

JRPGs really needed to take elements from other genres like WRPGs did and evolve instead of relying on the same staples.

Xenoblade really showed how incompetent a lot of Square's games this gen were. By far the most "modernized" JPRG of the gen. And that was on the gaddang Wee with likely less than 1/5th of FF13's budget.

Now if only it was easier for other people to actually get their hands on it and play some. Stupid NOA.


WRPG's dilute the RPG experience. When I watch/play a WRPG they always look/feel like other genres with RPG elements tacked on.



Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.


How did you come to the conclusion that adopting features that give more life to the environment's will up end with the same game but a different story? If Tales of something came out, then Persons 5 came out and both had a weather, day and night, interactive environment's how that make them the same? On the flip side, why aren't they the same now?

 

It was a bit of an overstatement.


The real question is, why should every game have the elements you listed?  What's the point?  Does it really add anything to the game?  Is it a wise use of rescources to add them?  This question of course must be asked independently for every game that's made.  I don't see why every game needs day/night or weather or interactive environments.  It's just not essential to many games, so why be wasteful in the game development process to add them in?  Some of those would be more irritating than immersive if they were present in every single RPG.

 

EDIT: and ironically, your latest post echoes my sentiments about every game being the same.



You're playing the wrong JRPGs. Check out some of the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want to see JRPGs done right.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Xxain said:


WRPG's dilute the RPG experience. When I watch/play a WRPG they always look/feel like other genres with RPG elements tacked on.


What? What kind of WRPGs have you played?



Fayceless said:
Xxain said:
Fayceless said:
Xxain said:

All JRPG's should have Day and night cycles, Weather effects, interactive enviornments, real time overworlds. They should of had them a long time ago.


I take issue with generalizations such as this.  Why should every single game be the game you want?   What about games I want?  I don't want every game I play to be the same game with a different story.  Not every game needs all those things you listed.  These aren't thing that should be thrown into every game just because "it's cool." They should only be used when it serves an essential function to gameplay and/or story.  Otherwise it's a waste of time and rescources that could further other elements of the game.


How did you come to the conclusion that adopting features that give more life to the environment's will up end with the same game but a different story? If Tales of something came out, then Persons 5 came out and both had a weather, day and night, interactive environment's how that make them the same? On the flip side, why aren't they the same now?

 

It was a bit of an overstatement.


The real question is, why should every game have the elements you listed?  What's the point?  Does it really add anything to the game?  Is it a wise use of rescources to add them?  This question of course must be asked independently for every game that's made.  I don't see why every game needs day/night or weather or interactive environments.  It's just not essential to many games, so why be wasteful in the game development process to add them in?  Some of those would be more irritating than immersive if they were present in every single RPG.

 

EDIT: and ironically, your latest post echoes my sentiments about every game being the same.


There is a reason why Skyrim is held to a high degree by it's player's and other developers. The first thing they will tell you is how immersive and satisfying it is to take part in that world. It's the biggest selling point. Why must there be any reason other than just increasing the appeal of the world? Why must it have some sort of significance? FF12 had weather effects and they serve no purpose but to increase availability of certain monsters..that's it. There was no complaing. What would JRPG's lose by taking time to make their game worlds more interesting? They dont have great stories anymore, standard anime characters, they certainly aren't graphic kings even in SE's case. The only thing JRPG's continue do well now is great battle system and art direction.