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Forums - PC - New computer build input/feedback/help

Pemalite said:
disolitude said:

The thing with AMD is that he is likely to run in to bottlenecks with PCIe 2.0, slower memory controller, DDR3 2133 limit (highest stable RAM I can achieve with 2400 mhz sticks), NB bus speed...etc... before he runs in to true CPU bottlenecks where more cores would be beneficial.

As a current user for the 8350, I've benchmarked this thing in every possible way I could and honestly the performance is identical for gaming, productivity and pretty much everything else 90% of us do with 4 cores disabled compared to all 8.

Only places where I see performance benefits with all cores enabled are rendering, game streaming and synthetic benchamrks... and i doubt he will do any of this.

OT - 7870 for 170 is a great deal. But if you see the 7870 XT, PCS+ or whatever ese they call it edition...get that one. Its not a 7870 but a 7950 with a few things disables and a higher clockspeed. It actually beats the 7950 in benchamrks. I've seen it as low as $219.


PCI-E 2.0 vs 3.0 16x has shown not to cause bottlenecks with gaming, compute scenario's sure, you're looking at a couple of percentage points max though in games.

As for Ram and North-bridge speeds, overclocking the NB clock to around 3ghz can bring about a good 10-15% performance improvement in some lightly threaded games like StarCraft 2, Ram speeds show bugger all improvements, you see bigger improvements with tighter memory timings than higher clock speeds. (Tested on my own FX 8120 and 1090T)

As for the FX 6300 vs 8320, you're right, there is hardly any difference in games today, but that's under the assumption that games will only 2-4 cores for the life of the system.
I remember people recommending Core 2 Duo's over Core 2 Quads when they were first released because games didn't use 4 cores, well. Here we are today and those who bought the Core 2 Quads ended up getting the last laugh as they can usually still run every game you throw at it, especially with the slower chips like the Q6600 overclocked. (That was 6-7 years ago, amazingly long life for a gaming CPU!)
That's compounded by the fact that this next generation of consoles are going to have 8x x86 CPU cores, which should translate into heavier threaded games in the coming years.

I generally always recommend buying the best CPU you can afford at the time, you upgrade that less often than a graphics card that's for sure, unless you're like me who loves shiny new stuff.


Those PCIe 2.0 vs 3.0 benchmarks apply to current gen cards (HD7000 and gtx600 and prior)  I am fairly certain that someone with Z67 board and sandy bridge would be running in to bottlenecks with a dual Titan sli running pcie 2.0 8x8x. 3-4 years down the road when a single card can offer dual titan performance, pcie 2.0 may no be enough. Also since steamroller is using AM3+, there is no reason why he cant upgrade to that in a year or two...

If money was of no concern, Id definetly say go for fx 8320 (not 8350) and a beefy water AIO cooler and get it to 4.8 Ghz...but in a build hes putting together, I dont think its worth 50 bucks more.



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disolitude said:


Those PCIe 2.0 vs 3.0 benchmarks apply to current gen cards (HD7000 and gtx600 and prior)  I am fairly certain that someone with Z67 board and sandy bridge would be running in to bottlenecks with a dual Titan sli running pcie 2.0 8x8x. 3-4 years down the road when a single card can offer dual titan performance, pcie 2.0 may no be enough. Also since steamroller is using AM3+, there is no reason why he cant upgrade to that in a year or two...

If money was of no concern, Id definetly say go for fx 8320 (not 8350) and a beefy water AIO cooler and get it to 4.8 Ghz...but in a build hes putting together, I dont think its worth 50 bucks more.


Oh god. I've ran tests with my Triple Radeon 7970's with PCI-E 2.0 against 3.0, there was no difference outside of compute. None, nada, nil, with the rate GPU's are advancing these days, it will be a long time before PCI-E 2.0 ever becomes a limiting factor, by then it would be time to overhaul the machine anyway.
People still drop high-end cards into Socket 775 (PCI-E 1.0 16x = PCI-E 3.0 4x) motherboards without a problem or massive performance impact.

PCI-E 2.0 16x = PCI-E 3.0 8x in terms of bandwidth.

Also, don't hedge your bets on Steamroller, it hasn't been confirmed to be coming to AM3+, AMD may release a new socket, A-la. AM4 possibly requiring a new Motherboard.




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Pemalite said:
disolitude said:


Those PCIe 2.0 vs 3.0 benchmarks apply to current gen cards (HD7000 and gtx600 and prior)  I am fairly certain that someone with Z67 board and sandy bridge would be running in to bottlenecks with a dual Titan sli running pcie 2.0 8x8x. 3-4 years down the road when a single card can offer dual titan performance, pcie 2.0 may no be enough. Also since steamroller is using AM3+, there is no reason why he cant upgrade to that in a year or two...

If money was of no concern, Id definetly say go for fx 8320 (not 8350) and a beefy water AIO cooler and get it to 4.8 Ghz...but in a build hes putting together, I dont think its worth 50 bucks more.


Oh god. I've ran tests with my Triple Radeon 7970's with PCI-E 2.0 against 3.0, there was no difference outside of compute. None, nada, nil, with the rate GPU's are advancing these days, it will be a long time before PCI-E 2.0 ever becomes a limiting factor, by then it would be time to overhaul the machine anyway.
People still drop high-end cards into Socket 775 (PCI-E 1.0 16x = PCI-E 3.0 4x) motherboards without a problem or massive performance impact.

PCI-E 2.0 16x = PCI-E 3.0 8x in terms of bandwidth.

Also, don't hedge your bets on Steamroller, it hasn't been confirmed to be coming to AM3+, AMD may release a new socket, A-la. AM4 possibly requiring a new Motherboard.

Here is a vid showcasing limits of PCIe 2.0 vs 3.0...CallsignVega has some awesome videos and ing eneral knows his shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-xcxAvu54

I know the 3.0 is just 2.0 X 2 in terms of speed but if you throw enough GPU horsepower at it, you will see bottlenecks at some very high FPS rates, depending on the amount of PCIe lanes you have available. The board he is getting is X16, X4 for example...

Sure it took Quad GTX 680 to hit this limit on an X79 chipset but this mobo is x16, x8 ,x8, x8 in quad sli with 40 total lanes.  Some AMD boards are PCIe 2.0 x16 lanes total and x8,x8 in SLI/crossfire you may run in to a bottleneck as well. This bottleneck may happen at 100+ fps and AMD cpu may already bottleneck the rig before that happens. However for something like 3D vision where its all GPU and not CPU, it will be evident even at lower frame rates.

As far as Steamroller, you may be right... I am going simply on what has been reported on thus far. 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2208525/amd-sticks-with-socket-am3-for-steamroller



Ok, I got everything ordered. Only thing changed from above is the PSU which is now a Corsair 650HX for $110. I really didn't intend on spending this much on a power supply, but further thinking made me realize this will prevent the need for a new power supply on the next computer down the road.

My other question I have for you guys, what is the GHz edition of the 7870? Cause the one I ordered is the Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 GHz edition, and I don't know if that is just the normal one or what.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Ok, I got everything ordered. Only thing changed from above is the PSU which is now a Corsair 650HX for $110. I really didn't intend on spending this much on a power supply, but further thinking made me realize this will prevent the need for a new power supply on the next computer down the road.

My other question I have for you guys, what is the GHz edition of the 7870? Cause the one I ordered is the Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 GHz edition, and I don't know if that is just the normal one or what.

7870 GHz edition is the normal 7870 that AMD released. Since initial release, some of the vendors released cards called 7870 PCS+, "MYST" edition or 7870 XT. These cards were actually 7950s with some cores disabled, but clocked much higher. This card is a good 20-30% faster than the 7870 Ghz.

They are usually listed toegether so they are hard to spot. For example:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007708%20600100181%20600286767%20600298540&IsNodeId=1&name=Radeon%20HD%207870%20GHz%20Edition

Out of those cards, "PowerColor PCS+ AX7870" is faster then all of the rest.  It's quite confusing to someone that doesn't follow this...



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So does the Sapphire version being 50MHz higher make any real difference?

Also, out of curiosity, since I am going with the AMD card, is overclocking the 6300 relatively easy?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
So does the Sapphire version being 50MHz higher make any real difference?

Also, out of curiosity, since I am going with the AMD card, is overclocking the 6300 relatively easy?

Out of the box 50 mhz more won't make a difference. But these cards are really easy to overclock even further. Take a look at this guide...

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_hd_7870_overclock_guide,17.html

As far as the FX6300, its very easy to overclock but you need a good cooler. Hopefully you picked up an aftermarket cooler as the stock one is noisy and won't allow any overclocking. Something like H60 AIO watercooler or Noctua D-14 will be great and give you 4.3-4.5 GHZ overclock no problem. 



Well, I don't intend on overclocking initially if everything is quick enough for me (which I don't see why it won't be). That being the case, if the computer is staying cool enough with the stock cooler, I'll be keeping it as is for a few months. Down the road, however? Yea, its very likely that I will overclock things to get a little extra speed out of it, and I'll probably be spending a few bucks on better cooling.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Well, I don't intend on overclocking initially if everything is quick enough for me (which I don't see why it won't be). That being the case, if the computer is staying cool enough with the stock cooler, I'll be keeping it as is for a few months. Down the road, however? Yea, its very likely that I will overclock things to get a little extra speed out of it, and I'll probably be spending a few bucks on better cooling.

Yeah thats a good strategy.

Out of curiosity, are you able to exchange some of these parts? Like if you bought at TigerDirect, do you have a store near by?

Reason I ask is that power supply... $110 is a lot of money for a 650W PSU, no matter who the maker is. You should be able to pick up a 750 W PSU that has 4 PCIe connectors. This will help if you want to go crossfire with 2 7870s down the road. 

When 7870s are 100 bucks on ebay, you can pick 1 up and double your graphics performance since your motherboard supports crossfire. But that PSU doesn't...



I can still cancel the order. It hasn't been fully processed yet. Lemme see what I find, as I never really thought about the dual gpu solution down the road.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.