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Forums - PC - AMD first to reach 5GHz with FX-9590 processor

fordy said:

Actually, AMD's catch-up with Intel on the FPU front came more with the 3DNow! extensions introduced in the K6-2. This gave them a performance increase by introducing FP SIMD. The problem is, the Athlon never had the advantage that you mentioned. In fact, 19 of the new instructions that AMD added to the 3DNow set for the Athlon were mimics of Intel's SSE instruction set, putting them (according to Andandtech) "on par" with SSE.

You're right, AMD did implement 3DNow! with the K6-2, but it only provided *any* sort of tangible performance improvement in software that would utilise the instruction set.
The whole point of SIMD execution (MMX, SSE and 3DNow! ) is that if you're performing one operation on multiple data types, you might aswell perform that operation on all data types at the same time, instead of waiting for the next piece of the puzzle.

The FPU in the K6 was still increadibly weak, being the main issue that most had with the chip, heck there was remours at one point of a revamped K6 with an improved FP unit.
The Athlon however was a different ball game as that was where AMD placed a large emphasis on the FPU unit with that particular architecture, they even introduced 3DNow! Successor with that particular architecture (I.E. Enhanced 3DNow!).

Clock for clock, the Athlon was superior to the Pentium 3, right up untill Intel integrated the L2 cache on-die, which consiquently meant that the L2 cache was locked at the CPU's speed rather than 1/2 or 1/4th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III#Coppermine




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disolitude said:

The problem with watercooling these days is that you really have to go all out and watercool everything or just stick with AIOs for the CPU. However recent intel CPUs (3770k, 4770k) really dont benefit from watercooling much. 2600k was able to do 5ghz and beyond as long as you cool it properly but these new ones tend to crap out at 4.8/4.9 no matter what you do or how you cool it.

On the AMD side, the cpu does benefit from watercoolin but even at 5.2 ghz, it bottlenecks the GPUs with a proper GTX 780 sli that are overclocked and watercooled.

But isn't that because Intel messed with the heat spreader replacing the solder they used with some thermal paste?



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

disolitude said:

...

Youre prolly talking about this... http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-unveils-2013june18.aspx

Thats the server roadmap. I am pretty sure there will be both APUs and FX chips will see a similar roadmap announced shortly, if they havent already.

I'll buy you a <$10 Steam game if you're right. (You don't need to do anything the other way)

It's just not possible to do a desktop-only non-APU chip.



JEMC said:
disolitude said:

The problem with watercooling these days is that you really have to go all out and watercool everything or just stick with AIOs for the CPU. However recent intel CPUs (3770k, 4770k) really dont benefit from watercooling much. 2600k was able to do 5ghz and beyond as long as you cool it properly but these new ones tend to crap out at 4.8/4.9 no matter what you do or how you cool it.

On the AMD side, the cpu does benefit from watercoolin but even at 5.2 ghz, it bottlenecks the GPUs with a proper GTX 780 sli that are overclocked and watercooled.

But isn't that because Intel messed with the heat spreader replacing the solder they used with some thermal paste?

From what I've understood, the 22 nm technology is much harder to cool due to smaller surface under the spreader. There was a great video on Time to live cutom Youtube channel where Tom did 3770k overclocking and explained what happened...



Soleron said:
disolitude said:

...

Youre prolly talking about this... http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-unveils-2013june18.aspx

Thats the server roadmap. I am pretty sure there will be both APUs and FX chips will see a similar roadmap announced shortly, if they havent already.

I'll buy you a <$10 Steam game if you're right. (You don't need to do anything the other way)

It's just not possible to do a desktop-only non-APU chip.

Haha...you are that sure eh?

I know this site has a habbit of betting, however you are a reputable poster that knows his stuff when it comes to PCs so I have to take your opinion on this matter as factual. This is bad news for AMD enthusiasts. All 10 of them... :)



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disolitude said:
JEMC said:
disolitude said:

The problem with watercooling these days is that you really have to go all out and watercool everything or just stick with AIOs for the CPU. However recent intel CPUs (3770k, 4770k) really dont benefit from watercooling much. 2600k was able to do 5ghz and beyond as long as you cool it properly but these new ones tend to crap out at 4.8/4.9 no matter what you do or how you cool it.

On the AMD side, the cpu does benefit from watercoolin but even at 5.2 ghz, it bottlenecks the GPUs with a proper GTX 780 sli that are overclocked and watercooled.

But isn't that because Intel messed with the heat spreader replacing the solder they used with some thermal paste?

From what I've understood, the 22 nm technology is much harder to cool due to smaller surface under the spreader. There was a great video on Time to live cutom Youtube channel where Tom did 3770k overclocking and explained what happened...

That's also true, the 22nm tri-gate process makes the chips smaller but a the same time it also concentrates the heat in a smaller surface, causing overheating problems if not cooledr properly.

But Intel also changed the way the heat spreader "joints" to the chip, making the heat problems even worse. That's why since Ivy-Bridge there has been an increase in the number of threads (on other forums, ofc) about how to replace the heat-spreader to change the TIM, and even EK has launched a kit to help watercool the chips without the heat spreader.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Water-Cooling-IHS-Intel-Ivy,21744.html



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
disolitude said:
JEMC said:
disolitude said:

The problem with watercooling these days is that you really have to go all out and watercool everything or just stick with AIOs for the CPU. However recent intel CPUs (3770k, 4770k) really dont benefit from watercooling much. 2600k was able to do 5ghz and beyond as long as you cool it properly but these new ones tend to crap out at 4.8/4.9 no matter what you do or how you cool it.

On the AMD side, the cpu does benefit from watercoolin but even at 5.2 ghz, it bottlenecks the GPUs with a proper GTX 780 sli that are overclocked and watercooled.

But isn't that because Intel messed with the heat spreader replacing the solder they used with some thermal paste?

From what I've understood, the 22 nm technology is much harder to cool due to smaller surface under the spreader. There was a great video on Time to live cutom Youtube channel where Tom did 3770k overclocking and explained what happened...

That's also true, the 22nm tri-gate process makes the chips smaller but a the same time it also concentrates the heat in a smaller surface, causing overheating problems if not cooledr properly.

But Intel also changed the way the heat spreader "joints" to the chip, making the heat problems even worse. That's why since Ivy-Bridge there has been an increase in the number of threads (on other forums, ofc) about how to replace the heat-spreader to change the TIM, and even EK has launched a kit to help watercool the chips without the heat spreader.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Water-Cooling-IHS-Intel-Ivy,21744.html

That's a really neat idea. Ill look around for some benchmarks for these watercooling kits without the spreader and check if they really do allow for higher overclocking... If it does, I smell a new fun project for me. :)



disolitude said:
...

Haha...you are that sure eh?

I know this site has a habbit of betting, however you are a reputable poster that knows his stuff when it comes to PCs so I have to take your opinion on this matter as factual. This is bad news for AMD enthusiasts. All 10 of them... :)

I don't think AMD will be relevant by 2014 in CPUs. Their financials suggest they don't have the R&D cash to do big new CPUs any more; their roadmap suggests Jaguar will be replaced completely by generic ARM (instead of alongside), and we haven't seen anything about the Steamroller successor for a long time.

I don't think they'll go bankrupt, I think they'll just transition to be a much smaller company focused on doing custom design work with ARM and with its GPUs.

They're hamstrung by a current contract to use Globalfoundries to a certain capacity or pay huge penalties, when GF has no high performance 22nm or less process on the roadmap.



CGI-Quality said:

CORSAIR Hydro Series H60 (CWCH60) High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

Hope that helps!

Your using an H60 to cool your i7 3970X!?! Wow, the H60 is pretty weak when it comes to cooling. When I was using my i7 2600K I had on an H60 and the system would still get pretty hot. Your i7 3970X produces a lot more heat than my old 2600K, I'm surprised that it's good enough. H100 would be the minimum I'd think for an SB-E cpu.

At the moment I'm using a Noctua CH-14 on my lowly Xeon E3-1225 V2, which has low clearance and will allow it to fit inside my micro atx when I move it over later.




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Me since the games were revealed, the fanboys since E3."

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smbu2000 said:
CGI-Quality said:
 

CORSAIR Hydro Series H60 (CWCH60) High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

Hope that helps!

Your using an H60 to cool your i7 3970X!?! Wow, the H60 is pretty weak when it comes to cooling. When I was using my i7 2600K I had on an H60 and the system would still get pretty hot. Your i7 3970X produces a lot more heat than my old 2600K, I'm surprised that it's good enough. H100 would be the minimum I'd think for an SB-E cpu.

At the moment I'm using a Noctua CH-14 on my lowly Xeon E3-1225 V2, which has low clearance and will allow it to fit inside my micro atx when I move it over later.


I strongly disagree. A single fan H60 is plenty for 3970X as long as you keep it under 4 Ghz.

If you go push/pull you may be able to do 1.35V 4.4Ghz even.

I've tested all kinds of watercooling (custom loop and AIO) and these single rads are fine for 2011 platform.