OH God What've I done

I should've NEVER even MENTIONED GT5 in this thread

OMG. look at this thread! Do I get a medal or something for starting this? LOL. But anyways, where are the Japan numbers? I guess since they are huge numbers it takes more time to calculate this week??

2.

You're absolutely right, you did say 2005 and I missed it. How the HELL did you get that number without running across the correct numbers by searching here on VGChartz? I'm honestly curious. Anyway, you obviously don't mind spending 20 minutes on a huge post so I am surprised you won't spend 5 minutes on enough research to stop you from being wrong on every point you make.

3.
You have not said one thing that is not addressed by my earlier objection:

If you think my argument is flawed or my premises or conclusion mistaken (or if you ARE predicting 41 million sales for Galaxy) then I welcome your rebuttal.

4.
Yes, you admit your mistakes, and I applaud you for that. But when you IMMEDIATELY turn around and throw out more grossly mistaken numbers it makes me think with good reason that you are throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks, especially when your repeated excuse is "well I can't be bothered to spend actual time on the numbers." And if your excuse is completely honest and genuine then again I direct you to my earlier posts:
5.
So you admit to implying that I'm as childish as a middle-schooler would be expected to be, while taking offense to my post where I said you said I was probably in middle school? Who's the nitpicker now? Anyway, I thought it was pretty obvious that my "paraphrase" was exaggeration to highlight your obsession with people's reading comprehension. Since I need to spell it out for you: I exaggerated slightly for comedic effect. I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my brief attempt at levity.[edit3: never mind this, we're close enough to reconciliation here that I want to drop it.]

I will copy/paste this response into a msg for you per your request.

[edit: Just for the record, I used "spell it out for you" before I saw your edit ... ]

[edit2: I am completely mystified by your objection to my use of copy/paste to the material I refer to in easy viewing of my response to it. That's the way point-by-point responses usually work. If you just have an objection to the space it takes up, I would note that I was the one to delete older history out of our exchanges. And yes, I fact-checked myself on that just now, because it's important to be RIGHT when something comes out of your mouth. Even when you're on the Internet and it's a keyboard.]

Lmao the PSP passed 360 in usa LOL here comes the death of the 360 :) (same thing happened to the xbox 1 by ps2)

FunKrusher said: ils411 said: hello271 said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: Omac said: darthdevidem01 said: @Funkrusher HALO 3 appeals to a WIDER Demographic than GT5 & FFXIII WHAT BS! GT series has never sold below 9 million (peaking at 15 million) & FF never below 5 million (peaking at 10 million) It's quite obvious GT as a series is bigger than Halo...now You smoking crack? And you are too big of a Halo fanboy to realise that he is right. Numbers don't lie, back under your bridge troll. I love when you say something and someone calls you a fanboy not knowing anything about you or your background. Hey genuis' I don't even like HALO. I'm into COD4 though if you must know. So there's something you just learned about me. See the problem with the internet is you try and being insulting or funny. And sure it may come off as funny or insulting to you or your e-flunky followers. But an insult without claim or merit to back it isn't at insult it's just ignorance. There you go you just learned something else. I'm giving out gold stars if you can apply and use this knowledge correctly next time. But back to the matter on hand it was ignorant on my part to put that up there with out checking actual numbers and sales data, and doing all that cool internet tech savy you guys do. My bad. I will infact retract that statement. But assuming you read (because it's apparent you didn't comprehend what was written). I was saying that these franchise WILL NOT CAUSE A HUGE SPIKE IN SALES FOR THE PS3 TO MAKE IT CATIPULT FROM 7million to 17MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD UPON THEIR RELEASE. I put it in bold for you. Take some time read it and digest it. And I stand buy that. The numbers you guys listed were on a system that had what? Over 100million users as a fanbase? Okay maybe not that much over their first releases but the Ps2 at the time of FFX-XII and MGS3 and GTA3-4 clearly had more than 20 million users.So let's apply those numbers here? Are those the current Sales-TO-Life date? Cool let's use them to help me make my point. if I'm looking at the numbers for those past games. And looking at the install numbers for the Ps3 NOW (in bold again for the comprehensively challenged). That means in order for any of those games on their release to sell those numbers EVERYONE (in bold again) who owns a Ps3 will be buying those games.Now sure that can happen? But the probability of it happening? You do the math.So I've spelled it out for you. I could make a witty comment about you guys being too much of Ps3 fanboys to have read and comprehended this or my previous post. But I'll let what I just posted speak for itself.Go ahead refute that. And please feel free to ad more nonsensical witty, attempt at hurting e-feelings comments. I need a few more laughs. Time is yours. I'll try to refute you, but I apologize if I misconstrue some of your points because frankly, your post was pretty poorly written and hard to understand. Now if I'm reading this correctly, you are claiming a few things: 1. GT is not obviously a bigger series than Halo. You believe this since you are arguing against a post that affirmed that GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo. 2. Upon the release of MSG4, GT5, FXIII, the hardware sales of PS3 will not dramatically spike, causing 10 million sold in a short amount of time. 3. At the time of FFX and GTA3's release, PS2's userbase clearly had more than 20 million users, which is why they sold so many copies, and why FFXIII and GT5 will not sell as many as FFX and GT3 did.   My comments: 1. I think if we were to go by sales, GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo. Looking at the sales GT: 10.85m GT2: 9.37m GT3: 14.87m GT4: 8.87m Average: 10.99m Total: 43.96m   Halo: 6.43m Halo2: 8.45m Halo3: 7.13m Average: 7.34m Total: 22.01   GT as a series as not only sold about twice as many copies as Halo, but on average each game has also sold about 50% more copies.   2. Of course it won't. No one is expecting a huge spike on the day these games releases (at least, I hope). Look at the week GT3 came out. PS2 sales went from 200k to 230k. The week FFX came out, PS2 sales went from 283k to 387k. The HW sale won't magically start doubling or tripling. But what's important is that these games will give the PS3 weekly sales a small bump, for many weeks to come. Did R&C or Uncharted spike PS3 sales when they came out? No. But the PS3 has beat 360 sales WW for 10 weeks in a row, and you can beat part of that is due to those two games.   3. Actually, at the release of GT3, there were 9.1 million PS2's sold. At the release of FFX, there were 11.7 million PS2's sold. They didn't sell truckloads because of a huge PS2 userbase. PS2 gained a huge userbase because of these games. You seem smart. I'm sure you can figure out the proper analogy with GT5, FXIII and the PS3. to be fair, funkrusher did retract his statment regard halo as being more appealing to a larger demographic than gt or ff. the error in his logic is stating that to reach the average sales of these series/titles, the entire ps3 user base would have to purchase a copy. we should remeber that we are talking about life time sales. and these figures didnt comeabout overnight. ff and gt reached such sales through out the ps2's lifetime. i'm guessing that these titles are still selling some even to date as the ps2 is still alive and kicking. as hello271 stated, once gt5 and ffxiii comes out, these games would help boost ps3 sales on a weekly basis. the sales may not suddenly go up to the millions, but these games will help the ps3 sell more increaseing its user base. (i should think this is true since i am one of those waiting for ffxiii and gt5 to come out, i'll probably be buying a ps3 sometime during the 2nd half of this year in anticipation of these two titles :P)     Thank you for some one with some sort of sense on this site. I don't like to be called names by asinine people who have no clue about anything about me or my preferences. You're correct, I did say that I posted ignorantly. But the main point of my post was that those games would not cause a major spike increase to the Ps3's sales to all of sudden make it leap and nearly triple it's sales output in the manner of their respective leads. If there was any confusion over my above post, I wrote that at work and was in a hurry.   But now that the numbers have been made for 2 competing games, there is a point to be made to hello217 the genius. Here it comes I hope it's not too hard for you to understand:   Okay so you're telling me that when GT3 was released there was 9.1 systems sold. But what were the INITIAL NUMBERS MOVED. Actually that's irrelevant let's just take a look at TOTAL LIFETIME SALES of the games in question. Let's take 2 things into acoount about the GT series in looking at the TOTAL LIFETIME SALES 1. They have more games in their franchise 2. They are available on a system that had 100million + users Now let's take a look at the numbers you have CLEARLY posted in your "refute" If we take that 10million avg. LIFETIME SALES number on a system that has 100million users that's a rate of 10% of the fanbase that they have sold to. Now if we look at halo which has sold an avg. of 7 million to a fanbase of 15 million xbox users that comes out to a little over 46%. To take it further. If a franchise as a whole sells roughly 44 million to a user base of 100 million that's 44% going to the install base If another franchise (we can only take the first 2 that came out on the same system) sells 14.88 to a user base of 15 million that's a littlie bit more than a 90% going to the to the install base. SIMPLE MATH You're right I am smart, I can do simple math. Something that seems to escape you. The funny thing is I didn't even want to argue this, but you posting up numbers for the sheer hell of it (I guess trying to prove something?), forced me into it. Now I have you documented as saying specifically that the GT franchise is a BIGGER franchise than Halo? Um based on the numbers you, as in you, yourself posted, that doesn't exactly seem to be the case. I mean I'm not a mathematician but selling to 90% of the people that own your system is just a tad bit more than selling to 44% of the people that own your system. But I could be wrong/sarcasm. So in saying that GT is a bigger franchise than Halo? I'm sorry but the numbers, the ones you, yourself username hello217, posted really don't support your claim. So how can you? Feel free refute that. Please, please do. Now even if we bump up the Ps2 sales to 120 million(which I believe it has sold to date) that's 43 million to a 120 million fanbase meaning the ratio of people that own the system that are buying the game becomes: 36-37% which is still LESS than 90% Now I'm not sure what the final tally is on xbox systems sold. I checked here and the last number I could get in december 05 was 15million so that's what I went off of. But I've posted my numbers/sources and used the ones you provided and that's what I got. Anybody can post a bunch of total numbers that they cut and pasted from a source and say "Gee whiz! Look game A which has 4 iterations in it's franchise outsold game B in TOTAL LIFETIME sales. Game B which has 3 iterations in it's franchise. Not too mention the fact that game A is on a system with 100million users to game B's 15 million users!" "Yes of course! Game A is a better franchise because it's sold more games!!!" But you have to go deeper than that (which I did and laid out for you, hope it was easier for you to understand this time). And which pretty blantly prove that the nonsense you were talking was WRONG (I capitilized it so you could maybe comprehend it better), all the while using your own numbers. So who's the fanboy again?   And lastly (with less venom) of course those NEW games are going to help push systems, that's a given there won't be any negative curve in sales (at least we hope not!). But like I said initially they won't increase sales astronomical. Now note this whole time I've said nothing about projecting 360 sales (outside of Halo3 franchise) or Wii. This assming that neither of these systems get games or spikes to up their hardware numbers. Because quite frankly who knows how well future games are going to sell on these systems for sure? I certainly don't. But I ask you sir again. Please do refute exactly the cold hard facts that I have provided using your numbers. I'll wait or in the very least check back again in the morrow. It's late here.

Okay cool. I think we agree on the main point which is that the big exclusivs won't cause an immediate spike in sales, but it will help sales gradually.

As to the GT versus Halo debate, I think we may have different definition of what constitutes a "big francise". I think GT is a bigger franchise simply because it has sold a lot more games. Now you seem to think that Halo is a bigger franchise simply because it has a much larger attach rate. I don't like to say a franchise is big due to x% sold to its fanbase for this reason: consider that tomorrow Apple comes out with a new console, and sells exactly 100 consoles. Its only game, let's call it iGame, sells 90 copies. Now this game has sold to 90% of its console's fanbase but I wouldn't consider it to be as big as GT or Halo. Obviously it's an extreme example but you get where I'm getting at. With that said, I agree that Halo is arguably more influential, and more of a system seller than GT. So if you want to think of that as being the bigger franchise, I'll respect that opinion.

Another brief point I wanted to make: you seem to think that the main reason GT has sold more than Halo is because GT was published on a console that sold a lot more. But I don't think GT sold as many copies as it did because of the PS2. Rather, I think the PS2 has sold as much as it did because of games like GT. Why?

1. The claim "GT sold a lot because of so many PS2s out there" doesn't make sense because when GT3 came out, PS2 only had a 9 million install base. GT3 sold well upon its debut despite PS2's small base at the time.

2. PS2 sales were sluggish in its first year until the big exclusives like GT3, FFX, MSG2, and GTAIII came out. The most logical explanation for the growth of PS2 sales seems to be because of these games (I don't think a price cut came at the time).

Now to the PS3 and GT5 analogy. Either one of two things will happen:

1. GT5 will not sell as much as GT3 and GT4 because of PS3's small install base.

2. PS3 sales are sluggish until big exlusives like GT5 hits, which leads to a gradual growth of PS3 sales.

Looks familiar? Looks just like the PS2 and GT3 situation. Based on history, I think #2 is much more likely to happen. Therefore, even though GT3 and 4 had "relatively poor attach rates" and PS3's install base is CURRENTLY small, I still think GT5 will sell boatloads, as will more PS3s.

 

By the way, as someone else pointed out, the XBOX numbers you used were wrong. It's more like 24 million WW. That still gives Halo a huge attach rate, but I've already explained why I don't think attach rate is as important as absolute numbers.

Anyway, sorry if the guys here are being too harsh on you, but double-check your numbers in the future will help because people tend to get annoyed by wrong numbers posted. Take it easy.

Sorry about the accidental double post.

For the record, I disagree with hello271's analysis.

[edit2:  Thanks hello271 ]

Just so you all know, unless I am mistaken FunKrusher and I have made peace.

So bump! Bump to a new page and a new beginning!

Final-Fan said: Just so you all know, unless I am mistaken FunKrusher and I have made peace. So bump! Bump to a new page and a new beginning!

Yeah we're cool. It's all water under the bridge.

 Move along nothing to see here

GT and FF franchises individually are still better than the halo franchises. Anybody who disagrees needs to wake up from ignorance. And as to the ignorant fanboy who got all offended and did not even realize i was not talking to him, well maybe you shouldn't be such a fanboy cause it has obviously blinded and cannot even see when somebody is not even talking to you or about you or anything having to do with you.