I currently own an XBox 360, but i will get a Wii soon. No way would I buy a PS3 unless its halves its price. I guess that will happen in two to three years time. PS3 makes a good Blu Ray player providing you have a large Plasma Tv, as for game console that is a secondary function of the PS3. You can name the games worth purchasing for PS3 on a single hand and none of them are out yet: (MGS4, GT 5, FF13 and Resistance 2).

Multiplatform titles released on PS3 and XBox 360, look, sell and play much better on the XBox 360. Take a look at sales for same game on multiplatform and you know what I mean.

Multiplatform titles released on PS3 and XBox 360, look, sell and play much better on the XBox 360. Take a look at sales for same game on multiplatform and you know what I mean.

Dark_Lord_2008 said: I currently own an XBox 360, but i will get a Wii soon. No way would I buy a PS3 unless its halves its price. I guess that will happen in two to three years time. PS3 makes a good Blu Ray player providing you have a large Plasma Tv, as for game console that is a secondary function of the PS3. You can name the games worth purchasing for PS3 on a single hand and none of them are out yet: (MGS4, GT 5, FF13 and Resistance 2).

i could say the same thing about the xbox360...i'm not buying one until its half the price, and at the risk of being cheap,  because of its faulty design and tendency to break down (rrod anyone?). the 360 makes a great heater and a good paper weight after it dies on you.

i can also name the games i want to buy for the xbox360 in one hand, halo3...so yeah, the 360 sucks...

but seriously, its comments like these that proves that you are either

1. a fanboy

2. racist

3. ignorant

4. close minded

5. a sour grape (ie you really wanted a playstation back in the day but your mom wouldnt get you one..)

6. in denial (ie your mom got you a genesis and everybody else has a super nintendo)

7. bitter (ie you bought a ps2 but ended up with a defective unit with no way of getting it repaired or getting it replaced)

8. egotistic

9. work for micro$oft

10. just a plain loser dening himself the abiltiy to play all the good games that would come out

 i for one dont own any of the systems, but will be buying a ps3 by the end of the year. will be buying an xbox360 when the japser comes out and will be buying a wii when it drops in price.

Dark_Lord_2008 said: Multiplatform titles released on PS3 and XBox 360, look, sell and play much better on the XBox 360. Take a look at sales for same game on multiplatform and you know what I mean.

hmmm...i guess you fall under no 3. ignorant

xbox360 - about 2 years out - 17m userbase

ps3 - about 1 year out - 9m userbase

do the math....no wait your ignorant....

let me simplify it further

we have to classrooms, classroom 1 and classroom 2. classroom 1 has 10 students and classroom 2 has 20 students.

all the students in both classrooms went out to buy an apple, so since classroom 2 has 20 students, 10 more than classroom 1, and since all the students bought and apple, then classroom 2 bought 10 more apples than classroom 1 because there are only 10 students in clasroom 1.

 i hope this is clear enough for you.

Dark_Lord_2008 said: Multiplatform titles released on PS3 and XBox 360, look, sell and play much better on the XBox 360. Take a look at sales for same game on multiplatform and you know what I mean.

The xbox 360 has been out a yr longer than the PS3,so more people have a 360 thus saying if you have the same amt of console owners for both buy a certain game the numbers would be the same.If the Wii version of the same game came out it would sell more than 360 or the PS3 depending on what game it is,cause there are more people with a Wii to buy the same game. THINK ABOUT IT! And the mlt platform games look just as good on both consoles so u r wrong.

ils411 said: hello271 said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: Omac said: darthdevidem01 said: @Funkrusher HALO 3 appeals to a WIDER Demographic than GT5 & FFXIII WHAT BS! GT series has never sold below 9 million (peaking at 15 million) & FF never below 5 million (peaking at 10 million) It's quite obvious GT as a series is bigger than Halo...now You smoking crack?  And you are too big of a Halo fanboy to realise that he is right.  Numbers don't lie, back under your bridge troll. I love when you say something and someone calls you a fanboy not knowing anything about you or your background.  Hey genuis' I don't even like HALO. I'm into COD4 though if you must know. So there's something you just learned about me.  See the problem with the internet is you try and being insulting or funny. And sure it may come off as funny or insulting to you or your e-flunky followers. But an insult without claim or merit to back it isn't at insult it's just ignorance.  There you go you just learned something else. I'm giving out gold stars if you can apply and use this knowledge correctly next time.  But back to the matter on hand it was ignorant on my part to put that up there with out checking actual numbers and sales data, and doing all that cool internet tech savy you guys do.  My bad. I will infact retract that statement.  But assuming you read (because it's apparent you didn't comprehend what was written). I was saying that these franchise WILL NOT CAUSE A HUGE SPIKE IN SALES FOR THE PS3 TO MAKE IT CATIPULT FROM 7million to 17MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD UPON THEIR RELEASE. I put it in bold for you. Take some time read it and digest it.  And I stand buy that. The numbers you guys listed were on a system that had what? Over 100million users as a fanbase? Okay maybe not that much over their first releases but the Ps2 at the time of FFX-XII and MGS3 and GTA3-4 clearly had more than 20 million users.So let's apply those numbers here? Are those the current Sales-TO-Life date?  Cool let's use them to help me make my point.  if I'm looking at the numbers for those past games. And looking at the install numbers for the Ps3 NOW (in bold again for the comprehensively challenged).  That means in order for any of those games on their release to sell those numbers  EVERYONE (in bold again) who owns a Ps3 will be buying those games.Now sure that can happen? But the probability of it happening? You do the math.So I've spelled it out for you. I could make a witty comment about you guys being too much of Ps3 fanboys to have read and comprehended this or my previous post.  But I'll let what I just posted speak for itself.Go ahead refute that.  And please feel free to ad more nonsensical witty, attempt at hurting e-feelings comments.  I need a few more laughs.  Time is yours. I'll try to refute you, but I apologize if I misconstrue some of your points because frankly, your post was pretty poorly written and hard to understand. Now if I'm reading this correctly, you are claiming a few things: 1. GT is not obviously a bigger series than Halo. You believe this since you are arguing against a post that affirmed that GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo.  2. Upon the release of MSG4, GT5, FXIII, the hardware sales of PS3 will not dramatically spike, causing 10 million sold in a short amount of time. 3. At the time of FFX and GTA3's release, PS2's userbase clearly had more than 20 million users, which is why they sold so many copies, and why FFXIII and GT5 will not sell as many as FFX and GT3 did.    My comments: 1. I think if we were to go by sales, GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo. Looking at the sales GT: 10.85m GT2: 9.37m GT3:  14.87m GT4:  8.87m Average:  10.99m Total: 43.96m   Halo:  6.43m Halo2: 8.45m Halo3: 7.13m Average: 7.34m Total: 22.01    GT as a series as not only sold about twice as many copies as Halo, but on average each game has also sold about 50% more copies.    2. Of course it won't. No one is expecting a huge spike on the day these games releases (at least, I hope). Look at the week GT3 came out. PS2 sales went from 200k to 230k. The week FFX came out, PS2 sales went from 283k to 387k. The HW sale won't magically start doubling or tripling. But what's important is that these games will give the PS3 weekly sales a small bump, for many weeks to come. Did R&C or Uncharted spike PS3 sales when they came out? No. But the PS3 has beat 360 sales WW for 10 weeks in a row, and you can beat part of that is due to those two games.   3. Actually, at the release of GT3, there were 9.1 million PS2's sold. At the release of FFX, there were 11.7 million PS2's sold. They didn't sell truckloads because of a huge PS2 userbase. PS2 gained a huge userbase because of these games. You seem smart. I'm sure you can figure out the proper analogy with GT5, FXIII and the PS3. to be fair, funkrusher did retract his statment regard halo as being more appealing to a larger demographic than gt or ff. the error in his logic is stating that to reach the average sales of these series/titles, the entire ps3 user base would have to purchase a copy.  we should remeber that we are talking about life time sales.  and these figures didnt comeabout overnight.  ff and gt reached such sales through out the ps2's lifetime.  i'm guessing that these titles are still selling some even to date as the ps2 is still alive and kicking. as hello271 stated, once gt5 and ffxiii comes out, these games would help boost ps3 sales on a weekly basis.  the sales may not suddenly go up to the millions, but these games will help the ps3 sell more increaseing its user base. (i should think this is true since i am one of those waiting for ffxiii and gt5 to come out, i'll probably be buying a ps3 sometime during the 2nd half of this year in anticipation of these two titles :P)

 Thank you for some one with some sort of sense on this site. I don't like to be called names by asinine people who have no clue about anything about me or my preferences.

You're correct, I did say that I posted ignorantly. But the main point of my post was that those games would not cause a major spike increase to the Ps3's sales to all of sudden make it leap and nearly triple it's sales output in the manner of their respective leads.

If there was any confusion over my above post, I wrote that at work and was in a hurry.

 

But now that the numbers have been made for 2 competing games, there is a point to be made to hello217 the genius.  Here it comes I hope it's not too hard for you to understand:

 

Okay so you're telling me that when GT3 was released there was 9.1 systems sold. But what were the INITIAL NUMBERS MOVED. Actually that's irrelevant let's just take a look at TOTAL LIFETIME SALES of the games in question.

Let's take 2 things into acoount about the GT series in looking at the TOTAL LIFETIME SALES

1. They have more games in their franchise

2. They are available on a system that had 100million + users

Now let's take a look at the numbers you have CLEARLY posted in your "refute"

If we take that 10million avg. LIFETIME SALES number on a system that has 100million users that's a rate of 10% of the fanbase that they have sold to.

Now if we look at halo which has sold an avg. of 7 million to a fanbase of 15 million xbox users that comes out to a little over 46%.

To take it further. If a franchise as a whole sells roughly 44 million to a user base of 100 million that's 44% going to the install base

If another franchise (we can only take the first 2 that came out on the same system) sells 14.88 to a user base of 15 million

that's a littlie bit more than a 90% going to the to the install base.

SIMPLE MATH

You're right I am smart, I can do simple math. Something that seems to escape you.

The funny thing is I didn't even want to argue this, but you posting up numbers for the sheer hell of it (I guess trying to prove something?), forced me into it.  Now I have you documented as saying specifically that the GT franchise is a BIGGER franchise than Halo?  Um based on the numbers you, as in you, yourself posted, that doesn't exactly seem to be the case.

I mean I'm not a mathematician but selling to 90% of the people that own your system is just a tad bit more than selling to 44% of the people that own your system. But I could be wrong/sarcasm.  So in saying that GT is a bigger franchise than Halo?  I'm sorry but the numbers, the ones you, yourself username hello217, posted really don't support your claim. So how can you?  

Feel free refute that.  Please, please do.  Now even if we bump up the Ps2 sales to 120 million(which I believe it has sold to date) that's 43 million to a 120 million fanbase meaning the ratio of people that own the system that are buying the game becomes:  36-37% which is still LESS than 90%

Now I'm not sure what the final tally is on xbox systems sold. I checked here and the last number I could get in december 05 was 15million so that's what I went off of. But I've posted my numbers/sources and used the ones you provided and that's what I got.

Anybody can post a bunch of total numbers that they cut and pasted from a source and say "Gee whiz! Look game A which has 4 iterations in it's franchise outsold game B in TOTAL LIFETIME sales. Game B which has 3 iterations in it's franchise.  Not too mention the fact that game A is on a system with 100million users to game B's 15 million users!"

"Yes of course! Game A is a better franchise because it's sold more games!!!"

But you have to go deeper than that (which I did and laid out for you, hope it was easier for you to understand this time). And which pretty blantly prove that the nonsense you were talking was WRONG (I capitilized it so you could maybe comprehend it better), all the while using your own numbers.  So who's the fanboy again?

 

And lastly (with less venom) of course those NEW games are going to help push systems, that's a given there won't be any negative curve in sales (at least we hope not!).  But like I said initially they won't increase sales astronomical.

Now note this whole time I've said nothing about projecting 360 sales (outside of Halo3 franchise) or Wii.  This assming that neither of these systems get games or spikes to up their hardware numbers.  Because quite frankly who knows how well future games are going to sell on these systems for sure? I certainly don't.

But I ask you sir again. Please do refute exactly the cold hard facts that I have provided using your numbers.  I'll wait or in the very least check back again in the morrow. It's late here. 

FunKrusher said: ils411 said: hello271 said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: Omac said: darthdevidem01 said: @Funkrusher HALO 3 appeals to a WIDER Demographic than GT5 & FFXIII WHAT BS! GT series has never sold below 9 million (peaking at 15 million) & FF never below 5 million (peaking at 10 million) It's quite obvious GT as a series is bigger than Halo...now You smoking crack?  And you are too big of a Halo fanboy to realise that he is right.  Numbers don't lie, back under your bridge troll. I love when you say something and someone calls you a fanboy not knowing anything about you or your background.  Hey genuis' I don't even like HALO. I'm into COD4 though if you must know. So there's something you just learned about me.  See the problem with the internet is you try and being insulting or funny. And sure it may come off as funny or insulting to you or your e-flunky followers. But an insult without claim or merit to back it isn't at insult it's just ignorance.  There you go you just learned something else. I'm giving out gold stars if you can apply and use this knowledge correctly next time.  But back to the matter on hand it was ignorant on my part to put that up there with out checking actual numbers and sales data, and doing all that cool internet tech savy you guys do.  My bad. I will infact retract that statement.  But assuming you read (because it's apparent you didn't comprehend what was written). I was saying that these franchise WILL NOT CAUSE A HUGE SPIKE IN SALES FOR THE PS3 TO MAKE IT CATIPULT FROM 7million to 17MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD UPON THEIR RELEASE. I put it in bold for you. Take some time read it and digest it.  And I stand buy that. The numbers you guys listed were on a system that had what? Over 100million users as a fanbase? Okay maybe not that much over their first releases but the Ps2 at the time of FFX-XII and MGS3 and GTA3-4 clearly had more than 20 million users.So let's apply those numbers here? Are those the current Sales-TO-Life date?  Cool let's use them to help me make my point.  if I'm looking at the numbers for those past games. And looking at the install numbers for the Ps3 NOW (in bold again for the comprehensively challenged).  That means in order for any of those games on their release to sell those numbers  EVERYONE (in bold again) who owns a Ps3 will be buying those games.Now sure that can happen? But the probability of it happening? You do the math.So I've spelled it out for you. I could make a witty comment about you guys being too much of Ps3 fanboys to have read and comprehended this or my previous post.  But I'll let what I just posted speak for itself.Go ahead refute that.  And please feel free to ad more nonsensical witty, attempt at hurting e-feelings comments.  I need a few more laughs.  Time is yours. I'll try to refute you, but I apologize if I misconstrue some of your points because frankly, your post was pretty poorly written and hard to understand. Now if I'm reading this correctly, you are claiming a few things: 1. GT is not obviously a bigger series than Halo. You believe this since you are arguing against a post that affirmed that GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo.  2. Upon the release of MSG4, GT5, FXIII, the hardware sales of PS3 will not dramatically spike, causing 10 million sold in a short amount of time. 3. At the time of FFX and GTA3's release, PS2's userbase clearly had more than 20 million users, which is why they sold so many copies, and why FFXIII and GT5 will not sell as many as FFX and GT3 did.    My comments: 1. I think if we were to go by sales, GT is clearly a bigger series than Halo. Looking at the sales GT: 10.85m GT2: 9.37m GT3:  14.87m GT4:  8.87m Average:  10.99m Total: 43.96m   Halo:  6.43m Halo2: 8.45m Halo3: 7.13m Average: 7.34m Total: 22.01    GT as a series as not only sold about twice as many copies as Halo, but on average each game has also sold about 50% more copies.    2. Of course it won't. No one is expecting a huge spike on the day these games releases (at least, I hope). Look at the week GT3 came out. PS2 sales went from 200k to 230k. The week FFX came out, PS2 sales went from 283k to 387k. The HW sale won't magically start doubling or tripling. But what's important is that these games will give the PS3 weekly sales a small bump, for many weeks to come. Did R&C or Uncharted spike PS3 sales when they came out? No. But the PS3 has beat 360 sales WW for 10 weeks in a row, and you can beat part of that is due to those two games.   3. Actually, at the release of GT3, there were 9.1 million PS2's sold. At the release of FFX, there were 11.7 million PS2's sold. They didn't sell truckloads because of a huge PS2 userbase. PS2 gained a huge userbase because of these games. You seem smart. I'm sure you can figure out the proper analogy with GT5, FXIII and the PS3. to be fair, funkrusher did retract his statment regard halo as being more appealing to a larger demographic than gt or ff. the error in his logic is stating that to reach the average sales of these series/titles, the entire ps3 user base would have to purchase a copy.  we should remeber that we are talking about life time sales.  and these figures didnt comeabout overnight.  ff and gt reached such sales through out the ps2's lifetime.  i'm guessing that these titles are still selling some even to date as the ps2 is still alive and kicking. as hello271 stated, once gt5 and ffxiii comes out, these games would help boost ps3 sales on a weekly basis.  the sales may not suddenly go up to the millions, but these games will help the ps3 sell more increaseing its user base. (i should think this is true since i am one of those waiting for ffxiii and gt5 to come out, i'll probably be buying a ps3 sometime during the 2nd half of this year in anticipation of these two titles :P)      Thank you for some one with some sort of sense on this site. I don't like to be called names by asinine people who have no clue about anything about me or my preferences. You're correct, I did say that I posted ignorantly. But the main point of my post was that those games would not cause a major spike increase to the Ps3's sales to all of sudden make it leap and nearly triple it's sales output in the manner of their respective leads. If there was any confusion over my above post, I wrote that at work and was in a hurry.   But now that the numbers have been made for 2 competing games, there is a point to be made to hello217 the genius.  Here it comes I hope it's not too hard for you to understand:   Okay so you're telling me that when GT3 was released there was 9.1 systems sold. But what were the INITIAL NUMBERS MOVED. Actually that's irrelevant let's just take a look at TOTAL LIFETIME SALES of the games in question. Let's take 2 things into acoount about the GT series in looking at the TOTAL LIFETIME SALES 1. They have more games in their franchise 2. They are available on a system that had 100million + users Now let's take a look at the numbers you have CLEARLY posted in your "refute" If we take that 10million avg. LIFETIME SALES number on a system that has 100million users that's a rate of 10% of the fanbase that they have sold to. Now if we look at halo which has sold an avg. of 7 million to a fanbase of 15 million xbox users that comes out to a little over 46%. To take it further. If a franchise as a whole sells roughly 44 million to a user base of 100 million that's 44% going to the install base If another franchise (we can only take the first 2 that came out on the same system) sells 14.88 to a user base of 15 million that's a littlie bit more than a 90% going to the to the install base. SIMPLE MATH You're right I am smart, I can do simple math. Something that seems to escape you. The funny thing is I didn't even want to argue this, but you posting up numbers for the sheer hell of it (I guess trying to prove something?), forced me into it.  Now I have you documented as saying specifically that the GT franchise is a BIGGER franchise than Halo?  Um based on the numbers you, as in you, yourself posted, that doesn't exactly seem to be the case. I mean I'm not a mathematician but selling to 90% of the people that own your system is just a tad bit more than selling to 44% of the people that own your system. But I could be wrong/sarcasm.  So in saying that GT is a bigger franchise than Halo?  I'm sorry but the numbers, the ones you, yourself username hello217, posted really don't support your claim. So how can you?   Feel free refute that.  Please, please do.  Now even if we bump up the Ps2 sales to 120 million(which I believe it has sold to date) that's 43 million to a 120 million fanbase meaning the ratio of people that own the system that are buying the game becomes:  36-37% which is still LESS than 90% Now I'm not sure what the final tally is on xbox systems sold. I checked here and the last number I could get in december 05 was 15million so that's what I went off of. But I've posted my numbers/sources and used the ones you provided and that's what I got. Anybody can post a bunch of total numbers that they cut and pasted from a source and say "Gee whiz! Look game A which has 4 iterations in it's franchise outsold game B in TOTAL LIFETIME sales. Game B which has 3 iterations in it's franchise.  Not too mention the fact that game A is on a system with 100million users to game B's 15 million users!" "Yes of course! Game A is a better franchise because it's sold more games!!!" But you have to go deeper than that (which I did and laid out for you, hope it was easier for you to understand this time). And which pretty blantly prove that the nonsense you were talking was WRONG (I capitilized it so you could maybe comprehend it better), all the while using your own numbers.  So who's the fanboy again?   And lastly (with less venom) of course those NEW games are going to help push systems, that's a given there won't be any negative curve in sales (at least we hope not!).  But like I said initially they won't increase sales astronomical. Now note this whole time I've said nothing about projecting 360 sales (outside of Halo3 franchise) or Wii.  This assming that neither of these systems get games or spikes to up their hardware numbers.  Because quite frankly who knows how well future games are going to sell on these systems for sure? I certainly don't. But I ask you sir again. Please do refute exactly the cold hard facts that I have provided using your numbers.  I'll wait or in the very least check back again in the morrow. It's late here.

its not quite right to add up all units sold from the different iterations of a game to compute the number of people who are fans of the said game franchise. lets take gt for example

as perviously posted (i'm too lazy to check if the figures are accurate but well have to assume that it is..), 

GT: 10.85m

GT2: 9.37m

GT3:  14.87m

GT4:  8.87m

Average:  10.99m

Total: 43.96m

the total units sold of the gt franchise is 43.96m, but it does not mean that 43.96m unique individuals actually bought a copy.  some of the 10.85m gt buyers may have bought all the other gt games (gt-gt4) but some may have just bought gt2 and gt3, while others bought just gt3 and so on and so forth...so to add all up to say that 43.96m people like gt is incorrect. 

the same holds true for halo,

Halo:  6.43m

Halo2: 8.45m

Halo3: 7.13m

Average: 7.34m

Total: 22.01 

halo - halo3 sold a total of 22.01m copys but we cannt say that 22.01 people are fans of halo. again, like gt, a person could have bought halo but not halo2 and 3, or just halo3 or just halo2 and so on and o forth...

the best way to probably gauge the fan base with out having to actually go out and make a detailed study, given these figures is to just consider the most units sold out of all the iterations.  for gt, it would be gt3 with 14.87m and for halo it would be halo 2 with 8.45m units. now what does this give us? actually, nothing. just pointing out that we cannt add total units sold of different iterations or installments of a game to get the fan base.

and as for the ps2 selling 120m, i think its closer to 115-116m (too lazy to check also) and if we go into percentages of people who bought gt and halo, around 12% of total ps2 users own gt while over 50% of xbox users own halo2. 50% is quite high but then again, this just says that majority of xbox owners are fps fans and only 12% of ps2 owners are gt fans. and what does this mean? well, i believe that its generally accepted that the original xbox was more of a fps console while the ps2 had everything else. 

i think this is where microsoft went wrong.  to actually sell a system, and sell it well, a large liblary of games with a variety of generes is needed. something the original playstation and the ps2 did quite well.  this is also probably one reason why the ps3 is still selling. since the ps and the ps2 hand a wide array of games, people are expecting the ps3 to also have the same. 

 gt5 and ffxiii may have a little impact on ps3 sales, but variety is where its at.

lets face it, a and aa and aaa games do not sell a console.  so what if you have 10 aaa games  if all those games are fps or racing then it wont get you anywhere.  but a lot of games in a lot of geners and categories will definitly appeal to more people.

hardcore gamers isnt where the sales comes form. sales comes from casual gamers....look at the wii for cry out loud! not that is a causal machine if i ever did see one.

so in conclusion, this is just alot of hot air about nothing coz i didnt have anything better to do at work and i dont want to actually work...  :P

Also regarding the GT vs. Halo topic that this has morphed in to. We must remember that Halo is THE game for Microsoft. It always will be. Even though Gran Turismo is huge for PS, it is not THE game. it is one of the 5 major games, but not the biggest.

we all know this.

So, I believe that a game like Halo has a greater potential to sell to a larger % of its user base initially.

And this would be a plus for Microsoft when in the conversation of lifetime sales of Halo vs GT games, (because we do not already know how many 360's will be sold).

But the lifetime sales of halo 1 and 2 will never approach the lifetime sales of the GT games because of 2 reasons IMO.

1) Microsoft has spaced the iterations of Halo too close together for the sales of previous versions to continue to grow in the fashion that GT games did.

2) Microsoft no longer supports the original XBOX, and brought their 360 to the market early.

Also, with a game like Halo, I get the feeling that you either love it and own it, or you are indifferent and will play it sometimes but will never own the game, and because of this fact- I get the feeling that everyone who wants Halo, or will ever want it already owns it.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, but only in America would you think that Halo has a broader audience than Gran Turismo.

I agree Halo seems like a bigger game.
It got all the hype
It is the single largest game for the 360, and owns the online world

but IMO the market outside of 20 something males for Halo is not as big as you may think it is.

This is in no way comparing the quality of the two games, that is for another argument- I am strictly talking about sales.

And I almost guarantee that the sales of Gran Turismo 5 lifetime will be greater than the lifetime sales of Halo 3.

(Maybe not in America, but there is a whole other world out there)

Do you think that is a bold prediction?

FunKrusher said: Auron said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: Omac said: darthdevidem01 said: @Funkrusher HALO 3 appeals to a WIDER Demographic than GT5 & FFXIII WHAT BS! GT series has never sold below 9 million (peaking at 15 million) & FF never below 5 million (peaking at 10 million) It's quite obvious GT as a series is bigger than Halo...now You smoking crack? And you are too big of a Halo fanboy to realise that he is right. Numbers don't lie, back under your bridge troll. I love when you say something and someone calls you a fanboy not knowing anything about you or your background. Hey genuis' I don't even like HALO. I'm into COD4 though if you must know. So there's something you just learned about me. See the problem with the internet is you try and being insulting or funny. And sure it may come off as funny or insulting to you or your e-flunky followers. But an insult without claim or merit to back it isn't at insult it's just ignorance. There you go you just learned something else. I'm giving out gold stars if you can apply and use this knowledge correctly next time. But back to the matter on hand it was ignorant on my part to put that up there with out checking actual numbers and sales data, and doing all that cool internet tech savy you guys do. My bad. I will infact retract that statement. But assuming you read (because it's apparent you didn't comprehend what was written). I was saying that these franchise WILL NOT CAUSE A HUGE SPIKE IN SALES FOR THE PS3 TO MAKE IT CATIPULT FROM 7million to 17MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD UPON THEIR RELEASE. I put it in bold for you. Take some time read it and digest it. And I stand buy that. The numbers you guys listed were on a system that had what? Over 100million users as a fanbase? Okay maybe not that much over their first releases but the Ps2 at the time of FFX-XII and MGS3 and GTA3-4 clearly had more than 20 million users.So let's apply those numbers here? Are those the current Sales-TO-Life date? Cool let's use them to help me make my point. if I'm looking at the numbers for those past games. And looking at the install numbers for the Ps3 NOW (in bold again for the comprehensively challenged). That means in order for any of those games on their release to sell those numbers EVERYONE (in bold again) who owns a Ps3 will be buying those games.Now sure that can happen? But the probability of it happening? You do the math.So I've spelled it out for you. I could make a witty comment about you guys being too much of Ps3 fanboys to have read and comprehended this or my previous post. But I'll let what I just posted speak for itself.Go ahead refute that. And please feel free to ad more nonsensical witty, attempt at hurting e-feelings comments. I need a few more laughs. Time is yours. What is this your alt account or did you think i was talking to you when my comments are towards Omac and not you. If this is your alt nice to know that you troll on at least two accounts. How about you find something better to do with your time? Now you talk about the PS3 numbers now well GT is not coming out NOW is it? Next GT didn't sell that amount in one day but over the generation. Now if you are Omac then my comments stand. If you are not well then i guess you can join him under the bridge. Hey genius! Yeah I thought those comments were directed towards me. Being I was the one that initially said that HALO 3 has a higher casual install base than those franchises. And read your comments and others comments labelling me a Halo3 fanboy. Wow you're telling me that I can go hide under a bridge implying I'm a troll? Wait so backing up your arguement or any arguement in a detailed thought out manner explaining your views with no hints of fanboyism at all makes you a troll!?!?!?! Actually I will personally fly to where ever you are and hand you 10k in USD cash if you can find ANY fanboyism in the previous post that I have written (examples: saying another system sucks or is clearly showing an irrational bias towards one system or not). Okay, I think we need to make a petition for people who have reading and comprehension problems. We need to get the kids the help they need. It'll help them out in the grand scheme of things. You're so quick to come off on here and make yourself pretty much look like a donkey's arse with no claim what-so-ever or foundation to stand on. Dude if you actually read and COMPREHENDED what I said, I already made your point that THOSE WERE LIFETIME SALES TO THOSE GAMES. I already talked about how THERE'S NO WAY TO TELL WHAT THE INSTALL BASE WILL BE WHEN THEY COME OUT. And in trying to be comedian you just made my point so if those are lifetime sales on a system that has 100million+ User base. And most of those games Have 6million LIFETIME SALES. That means 6% OF THE INSTALL BASE OF THE SYSTEM HAS BOUGHT THOSE GAMES. But that wasn't my point. We'll get back to this let's just call it POINT A. The main point being which was I (as in me not your e-nemesis or whoever else you were talking to). Was *drum roll* THOSE GAMES WILL NOT CAUSE THE PS3 TO GAIN A CRAZY SALES SPIKE AND JUMP FROM 7MILLION to 17 MILLION. So let's break this down before you once again fail to read and PROCESS (ie: COMPREHEND) actually what's being said here.Space provided to help you maybe understand better. 1. None of those games on the list THE ONE YOU PROVIDED have sold 10million + in their lifetime2. To date there are roughly 7 million Ps3s that are out in the world with that number increasing even as we speak3. If any of those titles are made available within the next 1-2 years (which we ASSUME they will be). and we Project that the Ps3 sells another 3million hell let's say 4 million systems in that time frame. That would put it's install base at 11million total. 4. That means in order for the Ps3 to at least sell on the level at the 360 (and we're assuming that that stops selling largely as well. Let's give the 360 a install base of 19 million. Leaving an 8 million gap)5. Refering to POINT A (if only 6% of 11million user base games buy those games. all based on the performance that they have shown in the past) that means they will sell 660,000k I REPEAT FOR THE COMPRHENSIVELY CHALLENGED 660,000k.All this information is taken directly from things you've posted and implied. Now I've laid it all out for you. Very simple to follow. It's up to you to do the rest. Now of course this all just speculation and who's to say what could happen. But like I said originallyTHOSE GAMES WILL NOT CAUSE THE PS3 SALES TO SPIKE FROM 9 MILLION TO 17-18 MILLION IN A YEAR, OR EVEN 2-3 YEARS. Well probably in 2 years it could actually.Even if it did 6% of let's say 18 MILLION is ONLY 1.08 MILLION.Now just for farts and laughs we could make the arguement that HALO3 with 5million sold on a system with 16 million install base has sold to 30% of the EXISTING USER BASE. I'm no mathematician but 30% is a lot higher than 6%. These are actual RIGHT NOW NUMBERS. But you probably already knew that, being that you're a genius and all. And according to your "non-fanboy" inspired post you said that those franchises selling 6million lifetime totals on a system that has 100million+ users, have a bigger user bases than Halo3 RIGHT NOW (YOUR EXACT WORDS) selling 5million total to date sales on a system with 16 million users. I'd say we need to get you some math lessons too.Hey genius maybe instead of spending so much time on here you need to get yourself over to www.hookedonphonics.com and try some READING & COMPREHENSION exercises.It'll save you the embarassment of not knowing what it is your talking about when you're trying to throw insults around.I'm backing up my arguements with math, logic, data (some which you yourself provided) and presenting.How about you?So who's the fanboy again? And for the record I don't like Halo, I prefer COD4

Do we still get the $10,000 if we find fanboyism in THIS post? (Irrational bias against a system)

1. None of those games on the list THE ONE YOU PROVIDED have sold 10million + in their lifetime
Games listed: GT series, FF series
Gran Turismo: 10.85m
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec: 14.87m
Gran Turismo 4 (Including GT4 Prologue): 10.23m
Final Fantasy VII (Including FFVII International): 10.31m
So, lies or ignorance. Since you later use another user's 10m+ numbers without complaint, I'll let you claim ignorance.

2. To date there are roughly 7 million Ps3s that are out in the world with that number increasing even as we speak
VGChartz front page: 9.76m
Since you later claim ignorance as to this fact, I'm going to be charitable and call you an idiot.

3. If any of those titles are made available within the next 1-2 years (which we ASSUME they will be). and we Project that the Ps3 sells another 3million hell let's say 4 million systems in that time frame. That would put it's install base at 11million total.
Let's be charitable and change this prediction to "4m in one year". You are predicting something like a 50%
drop in sales from 2007. That is unrealistically bad. To the point of lies or ignorance.

4. That means in order for the Ps3 to at least sell on the level at the 360 (and we're assuming that that stops selling largely as well. Let's give the 360 a install base of 19 million. Leaving an 8 million gap)
To be fair, you also say that 360 sales will die as well, which is also stupid.

5. Referring to POINT A (if only 6% of 11million user base games guy those games. all based on the performance that they have shown in the past) that means they will sell 660,000k
I REPEAT FOR THE COMPREHENSIVELY CHALLENGED 660,000k.
From "POINT A": And most of those games Have 6million LIFETIME SALES.
Sales of the named series on 100m+ selling systems:
Gran Turismo: GT-10.85, GT2-9.37, GT3AS-14.87, GT4-8.87 or 10.23 including Prologue Hmm, I see a pattern here. That pattern is ABOVE 9 MILLION IN SALES.
Final Fantasy: VII-10.31, VIII-7.86, IX-[edit: 5.3], X-7.91 or 8.22 including International, X-2-5.21, XI doesn't count, XII-[edit: 5.12] The pattern here is [edit: GONE].
So, [edit: omfg he wasn't too far off on calling 6m median, my face is now officially red].
: : Your point about the smaller user base is at least BASED on reality, but you ignore two things, the first one being that the userbase will also increase over time, making your "6% of 11m at launch" invalid not only in the 6% and the 11m but also in the "at launch" UNLESS you compare it to the previous games versus userbase at game launch. For instance, FFX's would be 11-27m PS2s at launch due to staggered game launch. I would not say this kind of comparison is very useful (FF lifetime sales seem to ignore at-game-launch userbase quite nicely) but it's better than just IGNORING it. Or are you only interested in what the games will sell in their first year, in which case: Why the hell are you discussing lifetime sales at all; and Of course Halo wins but that's 'cause it's so frontloaded.
: : The second thing your point ignores is that it is a well-known fact that games on less-successful systems have sales that are higher in proportion to userbase. This is because the more-successful systems (PS1, PS2, Wii) are the "big tent" system that draws in all (or most) kinds of gamers while the less-successful systems have to fall back on their core constituencies. If there are 5 types of games being made for 5 types of gamers on 5 million systems, they are going to have lower attach rates (say 20%) than 2 types of games made for 2 types or gamers on 2 million systems (say 50%). This is why few are predicting (5.91/21.51=27.5) 41 million Galaxy sales even if the Wii reaches 150 million.


In short: You either don't have a good grasp at all on the subject you are lecturing others on [edit: among other things, you were wrong on almost every sales figure you mentioned] and insulting them for not understanding, or are consciously or subconsciously biasing your analysis to make the PS3 look bad. Do I win the prize?

P.S. On the other hand, "660,000k" -- or 6.6 million -- isn't a bad prediction for lifetime GT5 sales considering the lower PS3 user base.