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Forums - General - So an Abortion limiting bill passed in my state, Texas

marley said:
-CraZed- said:
Ssliasil said:
Fuckin Texas, always ass backwards.

So it's ass backwards to want to protect the life of an unborn baby is it? It's ass backwards to require that providers who perform these procedures should have some sort of back up plan by having admitting privilidges at a medical center within a close proximity should an abortion procedure have complications?

Yeah so ass backwards... It's why even during the most turbulent of economical times Texas has continued to grow and thrive as a state cause they are so ass backwards there... Not saying the state or Texans are perfect but ass backwards?

I think not.

 

Social policy =/= economic policy.

The OP made a blanket statement.... My response wasn't that social policy necessarily equals social policy however the case can be made that one affects the other, but that the state of Texas is not just simply ass backwards because they chose not to have a policy with which that person agrees.



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Tigerlure said:
Meh I consider Republicans to be hypocrites in general, so I'm not surprised. Party of "small government" just imposing their will.

One thing that strikes me as funny is they claim to be pro-life. They are pro-birth, not pro-life. They don't give a damn about the child's life or what becomes of the life.


I've read alot of your comments  and think you are smarter than that.  You comment is so simple that it doesn't take into considerations that repubs  give more to charities than progressives.  They supplement numerous programs that support pre and post natal care.  People are so polar that they run on emotion instead of facts



So one party wants to limit abortion,
and another group is trying to make post birth abortion up to three months.

It comes down to which side you are on.
More people are having abortions cause more women are not getting married and don't want children. God bless them. no complaints about them. Thank God for lose women like that.

Real problem is not women who are getting abortions, the discussion should be more about people who should get abortions but won't. now that would be a good discussion. No real good solutions here.



The 20-week thing isn't the problem, but it's the biggest rallying point, so of course that's what conservatives are focusing on.

"The democrats hate this bill because they love killing babies!" they say.

Wrong. (note: I do not affiliate with any party) It's the REST of the bill that's the real problem here. The Republicans know this, so of course they focus on the 20-week limit, a small part of the law overall. They paint the picture that people oppose the new law because they oppose the 20-week limit. This is not correct.

So let's FORGET the 20-week part and focus on the REST of it, which is why I, a Texan, am opposed to the law and thoroughly ashamed of my government representatives. They hide behind the new limit, use it as a shield and a distraction. They claim they have the moral high ground while they aim to close clinics - which do more than just abortions - and makes the state a less safe, less healthy place.

They deceive the people by using controversial, emotional issues to mask their true intentions. They included the 20-week limit along with the rest of the bill so that they could vilify anyone who opposed the bill. IT WORKED. You can see it EVEN HERE, on this fairly liberal board, people debate ONLY the 20-week limit. Their brilliant distraction worked, and that's why I'm ashamed, not only of my representatives for using such under-handed tactics but of everyone in the state, even the country, who focus on the wrong issue and in doing so prevent the real problems from ever getting fixed.



Fayceless said:

The 20-week thing isn't the problem, but it's the biggest rallying point, so of course that's what conservatives are focusing on.

"The democrats hate this bill because they love killing babies!" they say.

Wrong. (note: I do not affiliate with any party) It's the REST of the bill that's the real problem here. The Republicans know this, so of course they focus on the 20-week limit, a small part of the law overall. They paint the picture that people oppose the new law because they oppose the 20-week limit. This is not correct.

So let's FORGET the 20-week part and focus on the REST of it, which is why I, a Texan, am opposed to the law and thoroughly ashamed of my government representatives. They hide behind the new limit, use it as a shield and a distraction. They claim they have the moral high ground while they aim to close clinics - which do more than just abortions - and makes the state a less safe, less healthy place.

They deceive the people by using controversial, emotional issues to mask their true intentions. They included the 20-week limit along with the rest of the bill so that they could vilify anyone who opposed the bill. IT WORKED. You can see it EVEN HERE, on this fairly liberal board, people debate ONLY the 20-week limit. Their brilliant distraction worked, and that's why I'm ashamed, not only of my representatives for using such under-handed tactics but of everyone in the state, even the country, who focus on the wrong issue and in doing so prevent the real problems from ever getting fixed.

The lurkers on the site are fairly liberal, while the activists in the Politics section usually trend more libertarian or outright conservative.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan said:
Screamapillar said:
Mr Khan said:
 


So it is now accepted that the role of governent is to provide health care to it's citizens?  Since when?

And what happens when we run out of money and the government is forced to cut back on healthcare costs?  We are to be treated like cattle.  Rationing of care, loss of doctors (already happening due to prohibitive Medicare/ Medicaid bureaucracy and legal fees), and long wait times, lack of specialists, and ultimately the state gets to decide who lives or dies.

I don't think so.

Such a response is wholly unfounded. You just assume that the system would not be properly funded, for one. Two, it is the role of the state to provide goods for which the free market is an inefficient provider, health care being a *huge* thing here. Third, different countries use different systems, and not all of them (indeed, not many of them) involve the government seizing direct control or totally monopolizing the system (just mostly monopolizing it. The United Kingdom still has a small private health system that the very rich can take advantage of). In many countries, it's simply a matter of the government distributing funds to a system that otherwise looks much like our own, just that the bill ultimately comes from the top. In Japan, everyone pays into national health insurance (including anyone on a visa more than 90 days), and they pay according to their income, and get deductibles set according to their income. The wealthy pay more into the system, and are on the hook for more when they get care, but everyone is guaranteed to get it, which is simply justice.


Forgive me, but it seems as though that is an incentive to not be a successful person.  As in, a disincentive to obtain a career with a higher-paying job in order to obtain "free" health insurance, but at the same time, not have to work very hard for it.  Thus, it leaves the door open for the more industrious to feel "Why am I bothering to work so hard when other's are getting health insurance for doing far less?", even though most are more capable than that?

Let me be absolutely clear.  I am a compassionate person, it seems like you are as well, I just feel very strongly that your philosophy of how this all should be handled is going to create more problems than it's going to solve.  I think in general, that welfare programs, and programs like Social Security and Medicare, are a disincentive to save for retirement, and a disincentive to budget enough money from your own salary to pay for your medical bills.  I don't think it's fair to expect someone to pay for someone else who was, for the most part, less careful about making good life choices and exercising good judgement.



The Screamapillar is easily identified by its constant screaming—it even screams in its sleep. The Screamapillar is the favorite food of everything, is sexually attracted to fire, and needs constant reassurance or it will die.

Screamapillar said:
Mr Khan said:

Such a response is wholly unfounded. You just assume that the system would not be properly funded, for one. Two, it is the role of the state to provide goods for which the free market is an inefficient provider, health care being a *huge* thing here. Third, different countries use different systems, and not all of them (indeed, not many of them) involve the government seizing direct control or totally monopolizing the system (just mostly monopolizing it. The United Kingdom still has a small private health system that the very rich can take advantage of). In many countries, it's simply a matter of the government distributing funds to a system that otherwise looks much like our own, just that the bill ultimately comes from the top. In Japan, everyone pays into national health insurance (including anyone on a visa more than 90 days), and they pay according to their income, and get deductibles set according to their income. The wealthy pay more into the system, and are on the hook for more when they get care, but everyone is guaranteed to get it, which is simply justice.


Forgive me, but it seems as though that is an incentive to not be a successful person.  As in, a disincentive to obtain a career with a higher-paying job in order to obtain "free" health insurance, but at the same time, not have to work very hard for it.  Thus, it leaves the door open for the more industrious to feel "Why am I bothering to work so hard when other's are getting health insurance for doing far less?", even though most are more capable than that?

Let me be absolutely clear.  I am a compassionate person, it seems like you are as well, I just feel very strongly that your philosophy of how this all should be handled is going to create more problems than it's going to solve.  I think in general, that welfare programs, and programs like Social Security and Medicare, are a disincentive to save for retirement, and a disincentive to budget enough money from your own salary to pay for your medical bills.  I don't think it's fair to expect someone to pay for someone else who was, for the most part, less careful about making good life choices and exercising good judgement.

Because we're only talking about the essentials of life as far as income goes. In the welfare state I would advocate, the poorest would get full nutrition, healthcare, shelter, education, and the minimum in clothing, but these are not really the ingredients for a fulfilling life on the whole. If you want a house, a good car, the leisure to watch movies or read books or surf the internet or video games or what have you, you still have to work.

Some people aren't going to work, and are going to exercise poor judgment and yet expect someone to cover for their mistakes, but even they deserve the basics, but how many people are going to be satisfied with the basics? Wealth and success are their own incentives beyond mere survival.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

the2real4mafol said:

Isn't this a very rare case? This women was extremely lucky to be born so early and survive. And i'm still pro-choice just because it's up to the women if she wants to keep her baby or not. I imagine most wouldn't abort but it should still be up to them. 

Finally, how can a state like Texas be against abortion but for the death penalty? How does that make any sense? 


It makes perfect sense. The death penalty is used after someone has been convicted of a serious crime, and more than likely also taken someone elses life. So the person had a chance to live, and a chance to live by the law of the land. They had choices they could make that could lead to the death penalty, or choices they could make that would lead to them living a happy life. They bear the responsibilty for their actions.

On the other hand a child still in the womb of it mother has not had the chance to make the wrong choices that may lead to a bad life. Rather it has had it decisons made ofr it. So it doesn't bear responisibilty for what it has not done. Instead a mother, may at will cease its life for now reason at all.

Now what confuses me is how people can say that women should be able to kill their babies because it is their bodies, but than think that the baby has no say in its treatment of its body. Where is the logic in that? Shouldn't the baby also be able to decide what happens with its body, and if its not shouldn't those decisions be made by someone who has the babies best interest at heart? I always have trouble understanding that logic, and reasoning.



Mr Puggsly said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
Here's my opinion... if you legalize abortion, then forced child support should be outlawed.

If you're that opposed to paying child support use a condom.

Your solution just encourages irresponsibility on the part of men.

Recreational sex is NOT irresponsibility.



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thranx said:
the2real4mafol said:

Isn't this a very rare case? This women was extremely lucky to be born so early and survive. And i'm still pro-choice just because it's up to the women if she wants to keep her baby or not. I imagine most wouldn't abort but it should still be up to them. 

Finally, how can a state like Texas be against abortion but for the death penalty? How does that make any sense? 


It makes perfect sense. The death penalty is used after someone has been convicted of a serious crime, and more than likely also taken someone elses life. So the person had a chance to live, and a chance to live by the law of the land. They had choices they could make that could lead to the death penalty, or choices they could make that would lead to them living a happy life. They bear the responsibilty for their actions.

On the other hand a child still in the womb of it mother has not had the chance to make the wrong choices that may lead to a bad life. Rather it has had it decisons made ofr it. So it doesn't bear responisibilty for what it has not done. Instead a mother, may at will cease its life for now reason at all.

Now what confuses me is how people can say that women should be able to kill their babies because it is their bodies, but than think that the baby has no say in its treatment of its body. Where is the logic in that? Shouldn't the baby also be able to decide what happens with its body, and if its not shouldn't those decisions be made by someone who has the babies best interest at heart? I always have trouble understanding that logic, and reasoning.

Largely because women of childbearing age are sentient. Babies are not sentient. Sentience trumps non-sentience.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.