Yeah I'm skeptical as well about these rumours. But I do think they'll have at least a 3080 competitor, minus some big features like DLSS and lower RT performance. On the other hand it'll probably be cheaper, consume less power and have more ram :P

We shall see next month. Not in any rush to get a new GPU.

I think if RDNA 2 competes against the 3000 series in Raster but not in ray tracing and no real answer to DLSS, it's gonna flop. During the Pascal days, competing in Raster would have been good enough but the playing field as changed. The future is Ray Tracing proven by how many AAA games are adding Ray Tracing and Big Navi will have a hard time competing against even a 3060 with games that have DLSS.

Now personally, if it can compete against Raster + Ray Tracing + lower price point will mean that it will be good enough for many to skip on DLSS. So it really needs to be fap worthy on Raster + Ray Tracing at the very least. Oh and Drivers need to not be shit this time around.

True, the market will view it as a second tier cards like the original Navi release. I mean the numbers Nvidia have put out are amazing on paper. I have a feeling it will be like the 5700XT, where while it is very performant vs Nvidia counterparts it still is missing essential features like Raytracing, DLSS not to mention dodgy drivers.

This time though AMD will finally have a solution for higher end market, and supports essential stuff like RT. While I don't think they have a solution to DLSS they are surely must be working with Microsoft and partners to get their up-scaling technologies more in line with Nvidia.. but yeah, I think you're right.

And yeah idd. If I can get same performance in normal games without RT and 90% of the fps of the RTX 3080 while running ray-tracing, while spending quite a bit less.. I can put more money into other upgrades and other nice things. Like Zen 3 and fast NvMe drives down the line.

Why do you think it's Navi 22? For all we know, it can actually be Navi 21, Big Navi, given that some of the rumors we've seen point to to being closer to te 3070/280Ti than the 3080.

That said, Ashes is completely unreliable as a comparing benchmark with so many variables like CPU and RAM taking a part in the final score. And then there's drivers as well.

I don't think it will flop, but it won't set the world in flames either (there are enough of those already in the real world). If it manages to end slightly above the 3070 with more VRAM and an equal or even better price point, it has a chance of selling quite well.

Ray tracing can or can not be a problem with the new cards either. Most games will be console ports that will handle RT with AMD's hardware so anything they can do on consoles, they'll beable to use it on PC as well. Nvidia's solution will probably be prettier and do more, but Navi will still have its fair share of RT.

DLSS may be a problem, but I'll still prefer to run a game in its native resolution than upscaled.

Isn't Navi 21 supposed to be the big daddy? Like the 6800 or something that's supposed to go against the 3080 or at the very least, be much faster than 3070? The main reason I think it's Navi 22 is because the leaker of the benchmark thinks it's Navi 22 a few posts later but granted it's a guess. But it would make sense given all the leaks we gotten in the past week for it to be Navi 22. Plus it wouldn't make any sense to have 80 CU + TSMC 7nm be only as fast as a 2080 Ti since 52 CU on the Series X = 2080 rumoured performance.

Maybe flop is a bit aggressive of a word but considering that Nvidia finally got the prices right, if Big Navi is only a 3070 competitor, then I think their market share will go down even further than before. With the 2000 series, Nvidia felt like they were phoning it in almost being the villain perhaps but with the 3000 series, they feel like they are the heroes around social media. RTG needs to show that they can do better imo.

Navi 21 is the big one, yes, but remember how a few weeks ago there was this rumor that AMD was surprised by the performance of Ampere? If that rumor were true, and with the remarks AMD made when first talking about Big Navi competing with the 2080Ti, then those results could actually be about it.

I hadn't checked the twitter link and the other posts, so I didn't know it was the leaker who mentioned Navi 22 first.

Nvidia really hadn't had other option than price their new cards "low". With the unnusual economic crisis we're going through and the launch of the new consoles, they couldn't price them too high or they would have lost many customers.

The first Navi cards didn't sell great, tue, and I think that part of that was that they were too closely priced to its Nvidia counterparts . Sadly for them, Nvidia has earned the status of being more valuable, so AMD needs to compete not only in performance but also in price.

I hope AMD manages to bring something better performing than the 3070 at the same price, and the same goes for the lower cards, so that they can claw some marketshare back.

While that's true, one of the more reliable leakers, kopite has said

But dont we have a 3070ti in the books?

I remember the tweet about GA104 not being able to beat Big Navi. I think it was you who posted it a while ago (or not so long ago, there's been so many news and rumors that it's hard to keep track of when it happened), but I always treat them as rumors never take anyone of them for granted.

Plus there was a tweet that said that all previous Big Navi rumors were false because the chip had just been tapped out.

Anyway, a Big Navi card priced closely, preferably a bit lower, to 3070 with more memory and performing halfway between this card and a 3080 would do wonders for AMD even with sub-par ray tracing and without DLSS. But price will take an important part in its success.

Making a new chip just for that would cost a lot to Nvidia, but they have the mentality to not just win, but to destroy the competition, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

We have a 3070 Super being listed by Lenovo, but the main difference is that it has 16GB of VRAM.