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Every console has had games I wanted to try but, in the end, there weren't enough of those to warrant the cost.

That said, if I can find a used PS4 for 150€ or so by december or shortly after, I'd probably get it... or not, it would depend on whether more PS games launch on PC.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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I don't really want to get a new console since I barely have used my ps4 other than maybe 1 or 2 games a year. It really depends on Sony's plans when it comes to PC. On one hand, Playstation fans could be correct and Horizon Zero Dawn is just a "one off case" to bring pc gamers to playstation.

On the other hand... We had this Song and Dance many times...

"Playstation games will never be on PC"
*Sony puts them on PSNow and allows it to be playable on PC*
"Playstation 4 games will never be on PC"
*Sony puts PS4 games on PSNow*
"Playstation 4 exclusives will never be on PC"
*Sony puts PS4 exclusives on PSNow*
"Playstation 4 games will never be on PC outside of streaming"
*Sony puts David Cage games on EGS*
"Playstation 4 AAA game will never be on PC outside of streaming"
*Sony puts Death Stranding in less than a year on Steam*
"Playstation 4 AAA first party game will never be on PC outside of streaming"
*Sony puts Horizon Zero Dawn on Steam*
"It's just a way to get PC gamers to come to Playstation"

Well if it is and there aren't any more games coming, then I will get a ps5 but if it's like a case where, they release a game on ps5 and then 6 months later on PC. I am willing to wait.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

vivster said:
Yo, bros! I need a little bit of help here.

I think I can tackle most on this one
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144439

But I'm a bit stumped on this one.
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144445

The problem is I'm not too familiar with the exact data flow between storage, RAM and VRAM while playing a game. Using an SSD as RAM or VRAM sounds a bit silly to me. That thing about decompression in the GPU sounds plausible but it feels like something that would be done in hardware and as such wouldn't have much of a performance impact.

Does the VRAM even stream data directly from the storage? Seems like something I would load in RAM first based on predicting what I will need for the game.

Memory storage typically goes from Largest(Cheapest per byte)+Slowest to the Smallest+Fastest. - This is because the fastest memories are damn expensive (I.E. L1/L2/L3 caches) so we can't make entire systems out of the stuff.
I.E. [Hard Drive/SSD, Terabytes @1-10GB/s Microseconds]  ---> [RAM, Gigabytes @32-1024GB/s. Nanoseconds] ---> [Cache, Megabytes @ 200-2048GB/s. Nanoseconds]

So we hide that by having tiers of memory sizes and speeds in order to try and get around that issue efficiently... Then we implement various technologies like "branch prediction" so that we can predict the data ahead of time and move them up the memory hierarchy to reduce the impact of accessing slower memories even further.

There are instances where the data isn't going to be in VRAM or Caches and that data will be accessed from the base storage, but this is a last-resort.

We have actually be using hard drives for "Ram" going back a quarter of a century or more, it's actually not a new technology... Though it was called "Virtual Memory". - Or a "Swapfile" - And was used when a program/game wanted to reduce it's Ram consumption or when Ram became full... Otherwise you would get an out-of-memory error and a crash.

Now SSD's aren't doing anything new or differently here, the Swapfile/Virtual Memory still exists... But it's not going to be restricted to mechanical hard drive transfer rates or latencies so there is a big uptick in performance... However, it's still orders of magnitude slower than Ram and still has orders of magnitude inferior latency... Thus the need for Ram still exists and will continue to exist.

The one issue I have is that if developers next-gen start relying on the SSD as a "Scratch Pad" for memory transactions we will start to see allot of arbitrary writes to storage, which means that the NAND wear could be significant, which may potentially create reliability implications for the next-gen consoles... But that is just a hypothetical on my behalf, I am sure Sony and Microsoft have put allot of thought into that aspect and worked around it to various degrees.

So in short... Yes, SSD's can act as "Ram". - But you wouldn't want to replace Ram with it.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 04 May 2020

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
vivster said:
Yo, bros! I need a little bit of help here.

I think I can tackle most on this one
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144439

But I'm a bit stumped on this one.
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144445

The problem is I'm not too familiar with the exact data flow between storage, RAM and VRAM while playing a game. Using an SSD as RAM or VRAM sounds a bit silly to me. That thing about decompression in the GPU sounds plausible but it feels like something that would be done in hardware and as such wouldn't have much of a performance impact.

Does the VRAM even stream data directly from the storage? Seems like something I would load in RAM first based on predicting what I will need for the game.

Memory storage typically goes from Largest(Cheapest per byte)+Slowest to the Smallest+Fastest. - This is because the fastest memories are damn expensive (I.E. L1/L2/L3 caches) so we can't make entire systems out of the stuff.
I.E. [Hard Drive/SSD, Terabytes @1-10GB/s Microseconds]  ---> [RAM, Gigabytes @32-1024GB/s. Nanoseconds] ---> [Cache, Megabytes @ 200-2048GB/s. Nanoseconds]

So we hide that by having tiers of memory sizes and speeds in order to try and get around that issue efficiently... Then we implement various technologies like "branch prediction" so that we can predict the data ahead of time and move them up the memory hierarchy to reduce the impact of accessing slower memories even further.

There are instances where the data isn't going to be in VRAM or Caches and that data will be accessed from the base storage, but this is a last-resort.

We have actually be using hard drives for "Ram" going back a quarter of a century or more, it's actually not a new technology... Though it was called "Virtual Memory". - Or a "Swapfile" - And was used when a program/game wanted to reduce it's Ram consumption or when Ram became full... Otherwise you would get an out-of-memory error and a crash.

Now SSD's aren't doing anything new or differently here, the Swapfile/Virtual Memory still exists... But it's not going to be restricted to mechanical hard drive transfer rates or latencies so there is a big uptick in performance... However, it's still orders of magnitude slower than Ram and still has orders of magnitude inferior latency... Thus the need for Ram still exists and will continue to exist.

The one issue I have is that if developers next-gen start relying on the SSD as a "Scratch Pad" for memory transactions we will start to see allot of arbitrary writes to storage, which means that the NAND wear could be significant, which may potentially create reliability implications for the next-gen consoles... But that is just a hypothetical on my behalf, I am sure Sony and Microsoft have put allot of thought into that aspect and worked around it to various degrees.

So in short... Yes, SSD's can act as "Ram". - But you wouldn't want to replace Ram with it.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I would've thought. Swap files aren't new to me, but I can't imagine that whatever the consoles are doing with their SSDs is gonna improve performance a lot.

The main feature that utilizes those SSDs will be the instant game resume, but we have had that sleepmode functionality on PCs with SSDs for a long time, just not for games. I find it hard to imagine a scenario where a game is specifically designed around SSD storage having a performance edge against traditionally designed games.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Apparently it's rumored that Alder Lake S will use a LGA 1700 socket which could last 3 generations instead of their usual 2. Finally these hoes are starting to make changes!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-12th-gen-Alder-Lake-S-will-use-a-larger-LGA-1700-socket-that-may-last-for-three-generations.463763.0.html



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

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The Tuesday news:

SALES & DEALS

Steam has two new sales and the weeklong deals:

The Humble Store has two new sales:

Fanatical has three new(?) sales:

SOFTWARE & DRIVERS

-empty-

MODS/EMULATORS

There is now a DirectX 12 PC version of Super Mario 64 that you can download
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/there-is-now-a-directx-12-pc-version-of-super-mario-64-that-you-can-download/
Now here is something that came out of nowhere. A team of indie developers has released a native version of Super Mario 64 on the PC. This PC version uses the DirectX 12 API and you can download it right now.
Now for obvious reasons we can’t share the link of this project. Obviously, we’ll also delete comments linking to this fan-made game. After all, this unauthorized PC version falls into the piracy category. However, I’m pretty sure that most of you will be able to find it online. For what it’s worth, Super Mario 64 PC is still available for download.
>> If you're interested, sorry, but you'll have to search it elsewhere.

Sekiro Online Mod adds PvP and co-op modes, and is now available for download
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/sekiro-online-mod-adds-pvp-and-co-op-modes-and-is-now-available-for-download/
Sekiro fans, here is a must-have mod for you. LukeYui has released a mod that adds both PvP and co-operative play to the game. Yeap, you read that right. You can now play Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice online, exclusively on the PC. This Online mod adds support for up to 6 players. One players is the host, while the other five are the phantoms.
In PVP mode, players will make use of their prosthetic tools and combat arts to defeat their opponents, grapple through the world and snipe each other out of the air.
In co-op mode, you can play through the game with friends, approach enemies and bosses with a different style and finally beat the game as the summoner class.
>> You can find it at Nexus Mods.

Watch a disembodied hand do a kickflip with this horrific fingerboarding mod
https://www.pcgamer.com/watch-a-disembodied-hand-do-a-kickflip-with-this-horrific-fingerboarding-mod/
Nosesliding the edge of a textbook with a tiny skateboard while ignoring a teacher was common practice during the skateboarding boom of the '00s. You might remember Tech Decks, skateboards for fingers and for total dorks like myself. You might also know Session, the most complex and satisfying skateboarding sim out there. Here's a beautiful, terrifying mod that brings 'em together.
Redgoufs' Fingerboard character mod for Session might look like something from a nightmare, but for a specific demographic, it's a dream come true. It replaces the usual human skateboard pilot with an entire goddamn arm, replete with detailed textures and fingers perfectly poised. The arm fades into the sky to ease the horror of the thing, but watching a hand bend and twist and crumple like a fleshy glove stretched over a human skeleton—I love it! It's also very gross!
>> You can get it from its Discord channel.

If you want to play Snowrunner as a giant octopus, this is the mod for you
https://www.pcgamer.com/if-you-want-to-play-snowrunner-as-a-giant-octopus-this-is-the-mod-for-you/
Life is tough for the hardworking vehicles of Snowrunner, but as with many things in life, wouldn't it all be a lot easier if you were a giant purple octopus?
Modder AlexLemminG thinks so. He describes the mod as an "absolutely unique experience that no one ever asked for!" Audience reaction has been mixed as Snowrunner is normally quite a serious vehicular traversal sim. The octopus has its fans, however. User Theshrilex asks "is marriage possible with it?"
Like any of the vehicles in the game, the octopus can get stuck in difficult terrain but fear not—it has a winch. Beware of the fact that if you drive the octopus poorly, you can flip it like any truck. You can download the mod here.

GAMING NEWS

Yakuza: Like a Dragon is coming to the PC according to Steam’s database
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/yakuza-like-a-dragon-is-coming-to-the-pc-according-to-steam-database/
According to Steam’s database, Yakuza: Like a Dragon is coming to the PC. Steam’s database is one of the most reliable sources when it comes to such leaks, so it’s almost a certain that this Yakuza game will soon release on the PC.

Ubisoft may soon announce a new Prince of Persia game after registering the “princeofpersia6” domain [UPDATE]
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/ubisoft-may-soon-announce-a-new-prince-of-persia-game-after-registering-the-princeofpersia6-domain/
It appears that Ubisoft will soon announce a new Prince of Persia game. Gandi.net, the company that handles all of Ubisoft’s games has https://whois.gandi.net/en/results?search=princeofpersia6.com" target="_blank">registered the “princeofpersia6.com” domain. As such, the French company may soon reveal Prince of Persia 6.
UPDATE: There is something fishy going on here. While yesterday Gandi,net was listed as the registrant for the “princeofpersia6.com” domain, the Whois lookup now shows GoDaddy. So yeah, take this with a grain of salt.

New Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order Update released, adds Meditation Training, New Journey+ and more
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/new-star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-update-released-adds-meditation-training-new-journey-and-more/
Electronic Arts and Respawn have released a new update for Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order. According to the release notes, this patch adds a Meditation Training, a New Journey+ Mode, brings Accessibility Improvements and more.

New screenshots surface for People Can Fly’s upcoming co-op shooter, Outriders
https://www.dsogaming.com/screenshot-news/new-screenshots-surface-for-people-can-flys-upcoming-co-op-shooter-outriders/
Square Enix and People Can Fly have shared some new screenshots for their upcoming co-op shooter, Outriders. These screenshots showcase some of the environments, characters and classes that players will find in the game.

MicroProse is officially back and announces three new games
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/microprose-is-officially-back-and-announces-three-new-games/
Now here is something that may excite some old-school PC gamers. MicroProse is back. Yeap, you read that right. This legendary company is officially back and will offer original and high-quality games in the strategy and simulation genres. Furthermore, the team has announced three new games.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Tuesday news, part two, and last:

EA Play Live is coming in June with 'world premieres' and more
https://www.pcgamer.com/ea-play-live-is-coming-in-june-with-world-premieres-and-more/
E3 is canceled, but the show must go on—and in the case of Electronic Arts, that show will take place on June 11, beginning at 4 pm PT/7 pm ET. EA said that it will "showcase our games through a live broadcast, community content, and more" during the all-digital event.

Id details 'complicated relationship' with Doom Eternal composer, won't work with him on DLC
https://www.pcgamer.com/id-details-complicated-relationship-with-doom-eternal-composer-wont-work-with-him-on-dlc/
Something was a little off about the Doom Eternal soundtrack that released in April: As audio expert thatACDCguy explained on Twitter, the OST mix of some songs is heavily compressed. "The music itself is phenomenal, but this mix on the official soundtrack is frankly terrible," they wrote. Composer Mick Gordon responded to say that he didn't mix the majority of the tracks on the OST, and later implied that some kind of beef with id Software was going on, telling a fan that he doubted he'd work with the studio again in the future.
It all seemed very odd. Gordon is a prolific videogame composer who has a long and fruitful working history with Bethesda on the Doom, Wolfenstein, and Prey games, and his Doom soundtrack from 2016 earned him multiple awards and nominations. Gordon himself hasn't commented on the matter further, but Doom Eternal executive producer Marty Stratton posted a lengthy "open letter" to Reddit today to explain his side of the story and defend Doom Eternal's lead audio designer.

Bloodstained gets a randomizer and new playable character this week
https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodstained-gets-a-randomizer-and-new-playable-character-this-week/
Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night will get a new playable character this week, as well as a randomizer that can tweak a handful of aspects of the game. The randomizer is a replacement for the original roguelike mode, which was part of the game's Kickstarter stretch goals but ultimately cancelled due to its incompatibility with the finished game.

Moonray is a surreal hack-and-slash adventure coming to Early Access
https://www.pcgamer.com/moonray-is-a-surreal-hack-and-slash-adventure-coming-to-early-access/
Moonray features conventional sword-and-board Dark Souls style combat in an unconventional world of floating fractal sculptures. You play as a craggy sculpture-esque humanoid on a mission to recover an element that's vital to the planet's wellbeing.

Minecraft is more accessible than ever with SpecialEffect's eye tracking software
https://www.pcgamer.com/minecraft-eye-tracking-special-effect/
Gaming charity SpecialEffect is staging an amicable (and very welcome) takeover of the PC Gamer Community Forums this week, so we want to take this time to highlight some of the excellent work its team carries out to ensure everyone has equal access to the videogames we love.
If you aren't familiar with the UK-based charity, it strives to offer gamers with physical disabilities the equipment required to allow everyone to game at their very best. One way it's going about its mission is with EyeMine, a free software package that enables players to interact with Minecraft with eye movement alone.

Amazon's sci-fi PvP shooter Crucible arrives on May 20
https://www.pcgamer.com/amazons-sci-fi-pvp-shooter-crucible-arrives-on-may-20/
Amazon has announced that the free-to-play Crucible will be launching on PC on May 20. Crucible is a competitive team-based shooter containing elements of PvP and PvE. Players will need to hunt down members of the opposing team, fight weird alien creatures, and complete mission objectives to win.

Microsoft's first 'Xbox 2020' stream to reveal Assassin's Creed Valhalla gameplay and more
https://www.pcgamer.com/microsofts-first-xbox-2020-stream-to-reveal-assassins-creed-valhalla-gameplay-and-more/
The Inside Xbox livestream on May 7 will see the first gameplay reveal for Ubisoft's upcoming Assassin's Creed Valhalla, which all by itself makes it a must-watch stream for most gamers. But Microsoft has big plans for the show beyond that. It will also kick off what it's calling "Xbox 20/20," a series of monthly livestreams that will showcase the company's plans for the year.
>> Since the stream will be about multiplats, I would also expect more new games that will also launch on PC.

Mortal Kombat 11 is getting new story DLC
https://www.pcgamer.com/mortal-kombat-11-is-getting-new-story-dlc/
According to a tweet from Playstation Brazil, some singleplayer story DLC is coming for Mortal Kombat 11. MK11 has received a lot of typical beat 'em up updates—new characters and such—but it's particularly exciting to know there's more gory melodrama coming to those of us to would rather test our mettle offline.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Captain_Yuri said:
Apparently it's rumored that Alder Lake S will use a LGA 1700 socket which could last 3 generations instead of their usual 2. Finally these hoes are starting to make changes!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-12th-gen-Alder-Lake-S-will-use-a-larger-LGA-1700-socket-that-may-last-for-three-generations.463763.0.html

It would be a nice welcome, specially given that they're about to release the new 1200 socket family of mobos that will work with the upcoming CPUs and the ones that will, supposedly, launch later this same year.

Rants aside, it will be interesting to see how the Alder Lake CPUs turn out to be given that they'll come with a new architecture and the new big/small cores design.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Captain_Yuri said:
Apparently it's rumored that Alder Lake S will use a LGA 1700 socket which could last 3 generations instead of their usual 2. Finally these hoes are starting to make changes!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-12th-gen-Alder-Lake-S-will-use-a-larger-LGA-1700-socket-that-may-last-for-three-generations.463763.0.html

It would be a nice welcome, specially given that they're about to release the new 1200 socket family of mobos that will work with the upcoming CPUs and the ones that will, supposedly, launch later this same year.

Rants aside, it will be interesting to see how the Alder Lake CPUs turn out to be given that they'll come with a new architecture and the new big/small cores design.

Yea it's quite annoying. They could have built a socket that has a bunch of pins that don't to anything unless they are required for a future cpu. Instead they keep on adjusting/adding the pins slightly making the entire thing nonsense.

I think Alder Lake will be the first series of cpus where intel finally starts fighting back. The question is how far AMD would advance by the time it comes out?



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Pemalite said:
vivster said:
Yo, bros! I need a little bit of help here.

I think I can tackle most on this one
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144439

But I'm a bit stumped on this one.
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9144445

The problem is I'm not too familiar with the exact data flow between storage, RAM and VRAM while playing a game. Using an SSD as RAM or VRAM sounds a bit silly to me. That thing about decompression in the GPU sounds plausible but it feels like something that would be done in hardware and as such wouldn't have much of a performance impact.

Does the VRAM even stream data directly from the storage? Seems like something I would load in RAM first based on predicting what I will need for the game.

Memory storage typically goes from Largest(Cheapest per byte)+Slowest to the Smallest+Fastest. - This is because the fastest memories are damn expensive (I.E. L1/L2/L3 caches) so we can't make entire systems out of the stuff.
I.E. [Hard Drive/SSD, Terabytes @1-10GB/s Microseconds]  ---> [RAM, Gigabytes @32-1024GB/s. Nanoseconds] ---> [Cache, Megabytes @ 200-2048GB/s. Nanoseconds]

So we hide that by having tiers of memory sizes and speeds in order to try and get around that issue efficiently... Then we implement various technologies like "branch prediction" so that we can predict the data ahead of time and move them up the memory hierarchy to reduce the impact of accessing slower memories even further.

There are instances where the data isn't going to be in VRAM or Caches and that data will be accessed from the base storage, but this is a last-resort.

We have actually be using hard drives for "Ram" going back a quarter of a century or more, it's actually not a new technology... Though it was called "Virtual Memory". - Or a "Swapfile" - And was used when a program/game wanted to reduce it's Ram consumption or when Ram became full... Otherwise you would get an out-of-memory error and a crash.

Now SSD's aren't doing anything new or differently here, the Swapfile/Virtual Memory still exists... But it's not going to be restricted to mechanical hard drive transfer rates or latencies so there is a big uptick in performance... However, it's still orders of magnitude slower than Ram and still has orders of magnitude inferior latency... Thus the need for Ram still exists and will continue to exist.

The one issue I have is that if developers next-gen start relying on the SSD as a "Scratch Pad" for memory transactions we will start to see allot of arbitrary writes to storage, which means that the NAND wear could be significant, which may potentially create reliability implications for the next-gen consoles... But that is just a hypothetical on my behalf, I am sure Sony and Microsoft have put allot of thought into that aspect and worked around it to various degrees.

So in short... Yes, SSD's can act as "Ram". - But you wouldn't want to replace Ram with it.

My thoughts exactly.

Just by comparison, the SSD in the PS5 is supposed to be about as fast (well, as much bandwidth) as a single channel DDR2-800 DIMM while the one in the XSX about as fast as a single DIMM of DDR-533. Dual Channel DDR4-3200 already has about ten times the bandwidth over those SSD, the GDDR6 in those consoles more like 100 times as much. These are fest SSD, no doubt about that, but against volatile memory, they're sluggish as hell. 

So if they need to use the SSD as RAM, then whatever it needs to load will get choked to death. It's okay as a temporary Swap file for virtual memory, which like you said has been done practically since the inception of Windows 3.x and EMM386, but as a permanent solution, it's just inadequate.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 05 May 2020