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haxxiy said:
EricHiggin said:

You have to take competition into account more so then you have. The GTX 1000 line hasn't really come down in price much because there is no reason. Vega is weak competition so there is little reason to lower the prices of the 1000 series. Just look at what Intel has done to their line up in terms of dropping prices and adding cores. Intel was taking baby steps and as soon as Ryzen showed up, they started jogging and then quickly leaping. If Navi truly competes with the GTX 1000 series for the rumored prices, you can bet Nvidia will drop prices quickly to remain as competitive as necessary.

Not to mention market share and mind share. AMD is like Tesla right now. Mostly still buzz. Tesla is no GM or Toyota though, and Intel and Nvidia are. AMD needs to gain market share, and as quickly as possible, because Intel is going to strike back as soon as they can, which won't be for a while, and with the recent RTX 2000 series falling flat, right now is the time for AMD to put the pedal to the metal and make as much of a dent as possible.

I would say the prices seem a little low for the GPU's. Another $50 at least per SKU would make much more sense, and it could potentially be even more than that, depending on how low Nvidia can afford to go with the 1000 series.

I don't know. Their GCN architecture is worse than Maxwell, so they're at least four or five years behind Nvidia at this point, and lagging badly in R&D. Navi is just another refresh  and there's no Jim Keller to make miracles this time around. AMD is just being hyped in the stock market right now because absolutely no analyst seems to know that their 7 nm chips, in fact, won't put them one node ahead of Intel's 10 nm, that it's just a marketing name.

If Navi is solely GCN based, then it's going to have an uphill battle against Pascal even at 7nm, cheap or not. Odds are good though that Navi will be another step passed Vega's GCN/NCU, which was already a step passed Polaris' GCN. Sales of Ryzen have been strong since launch and much of that is probably being spent on the Radeon division. Ryzen pretty much has everything it needs in place, it just needs those pieces put together over time, with tweaks along the way, so AMD can focus more so on Radeon now. If Vega did suffer because of Navi, then this fits into place nicely.

I don't think Keller had much to do with Radeon, as his job was to produce both an x86 and an ARM CPU. He may have worked with Radeon somewhat if they had planned for GPU to be part of infinity fabric back then, but it seems unlikely at this point since AMD has said they weren't sure if it could be done and that they are looking into it. They could be bluffing though. AMD also picked up a Manager and Engineer with plenty of experience and history with Nvidia and ATI to lead Radeon forward.

AMD is using very smart marketing. Not only are they pushing the 7nm 'benefit', but they apparently are going to align Navi with Ryzen so both will be 3000 series which is a fantastic marketing decision. Whoever decided to change the model numbers to that is brilliant, because it will also give casual consumers the idea that the Radeon series of cards will always be ahead or better than the Nvidia counterparts, since you will have Nvidia RTX 2000 vs Radeon RX 3000. If your buying an AMD 3000 CPU, you might as well buy an AMD 3000 GPU. While Intel's 10nm should be on par if not exceeding 7nm, AMD doesn't have to worry about that for a year or two in the consumer market.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 07 December 2018

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EricHiggin said:
haxxiy said:

I don't know. Their GCN architecture is worse than Maxwell, so they're at least four or five years behind Nvidia at this point, and lagging badly in R&D. Navi is just another refresh  and there's no Jim Keller to make miracles this time around. AMD is just being hyped in the stock market right now because absolutely no analyst seems to know that their 7 nm chips, in fact, won't put them one node ahead of Intel's 10 nm, that it's just a marketing name.

If Navi is solely GCN based, then it's going to have an uphill battle against Pascal even at 7nm, cheap or not. Odds are good though that Navi will be another step passed Vega's GCN/NCU, which was already a step passed Polaris' GCN. Sales of Ryzen have been strong since launch and much of that is probably being spent on the Radeon division. Ryzen pretty much has everything it needs in place, it just needs those pieces put together over time, with tweaks along the way, so AMD can focus more so on Radeon now. If Vega did suffer because of Navi, then this fits into place nicely.

I don't think Keller had much to do with Radeon, as his job was to produce both an x86 and an ARM CPU. He may have worked with Radeon somewhat if they had planned for GPU to be part of infinity fabric back then, but it seems unlikely at this point since AMD has said they weren't sure if it could be done and that they are looking into it. They could be bluffing though. AMD also picked up a Manager and Engineer with plenty of experience and history with Nvidia and ATI to lead Radeon forward.

AMD is using very smart marketing. Not only are they pushing the 7nm 'benefit', but they apparently are going to align Navi with Ryzen so both will be 3000 series which is a fantastic marketing decision. Whoever decided to change the model numbers to that is brilliant, because it will also give casual consumers the idea that the Radeon series of cards will always be ahead or better than the Nvidia counterparts, since you will have Nvidia RTX 2000 vs Radeon RX 3000. If your buying an AMD 3000 CPU, you might as well buy an AMD 3000 GPU. While Intel's 10nm should be on par if not exceeding 7nm, AMD doesn't have to worry about that for a year or two in the consumer market.

To be frank, AMD's graphics division, ever since the beginning of the decade, reminds me of Ferrari in F1. Both are sort of fast, but simply can't keep up with development. Their newer stuff ends up being misguided sidesteps or downgrades, and then they take the "L" home and are back to zero, rinse and repeat the next year.

What I'm expecting, while sincerely hoping to be wrong, is some 7 nm designs who might sort of match Turing's power consumption and performance, which are solidly beaten in turn by Nvidia's next generation GPUs just a few months later. AMD counters with their rebranded and overclocked, more power hungry chips, AMD fans claim it's a victory since "no casual gamer cares about power consumption anyway" and cue Nvidia walking away with 95% of dGPU marketshare again.



 

 

 

 

 

BasilZero said:
Epic Game Store better have Epic sales deals otherwise its gonna fall short like Origin.

True. But unlike Origin with EA, Epic has a lot of money to waste on its store to help it gain traction. Plus the fact that a lot of people already have installed the store because of Fortnite.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
It does look interesting.

Tho this one and Rage 2 remind me a bit of Borderlands :-/.

Hm, Rage 2 does have some of Borderlands vibe for me as well, though I can't say that for Outer Worlds - it kinda looks like Fallout somewhat mixed with Mass Effect and Bioshock.

As I already said, not to happy about the setting, though from what I've seen this will be proper action-RPG with lot of different ways to handle quests and lot of the sillines and dark themes intertwined, just like original Fallouts, so I'm looking forward to it.



HoloDust said:
JEMC said:
It does look interesting.

Tho this one and Rage 2 remind me a bit of Borderlands :-/.

Hm, Rage 2 does have some of Borderlands vibe for me as well, though I can't say that for Outer Worlds - it kinda looks like Fallout somewhat mixed with Mass Effect and Bioshock.

As I already said, not to happy about the setting, though from what I've seen this will be proper action-RPG with lot of different ways to handle quests and lot of the sillines and dark themes intertwined, just like original Fallouts, so I'm looking forward to it.

Well, to be honest, the Borderlands feel I get from Outer Worlds is mostly because of the bright colours and the futuristic but with a wild west approach setting. And yes, I know that they used the same settings with New Vegas, for example.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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So, my GPU has died. Which is kind of amazing since today it's exactly four *years since I've built it.

I've just installed the integrated graphics drivers so at least I can still use my PC.

It sucks because I was expecting it to hold on until the 7 nm cards, so I could upgrade. I wonder what I'll do now.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 08 December 2018

 

 

 

 

 

How old was your GPU?



haxxiy said:

So, my GPU has died. Which is kind of amazing since today it's exactly four days since I've built it.

I've just installed the integrated graphics drivers so at least I can still use my PC.

It sucks because I was expecting it to hold on until the 7 nm cards, so I could upgrade. I wonder what I'll do now.

I take it as years not days? Otherwise it would still be in warranty and you could get a new one.

What will you do? Wait or get a new one as soon as possible?



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
haxxiy said:

So, my GPU has died. Which is kind of amazing since today it's exactly four days since I've built it.

I've just installed the integrated graphics drivers so at least I can still use my PC.

It sucks because I was expecting it to hold on until the 7 nm cards, so I could upgrade. I wonder what I'll do now.

I take it as years not days? Otherwise it would still be in warranty and you could get a new one.

What will you do? Wait or get a new one as soon as possible?

Yeah, four years, I've edited it, sorry. I'll have to get a new one I guess, though nothing exceptional, just a stop-gap solution.

There's some RX 570s for $149 at Newegg, so perhaps that would be a good choice? Since it was a GTX 970 who broke, I'd be OK with a sidestep for $149.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:

To be frank, AMD's graphics division, ever since the beginning of the decade, reminds me of Ferrari in F1. Both are sort of fast, but simply can't keep up with development. Their newer stuff ends up being misguided sidesteps or downgrades, and then they take the "L" home and are back to zero, rinse and repeat the next year.

What I'm expecting, while sincerely hoping to be wrong, is some 7 nm designs who might sort of match Turing's power consumption and performance, which are solidly beaten in turn by Nvidia's next generation GPUs just a few months later. AMD counters with their rebranded and overclocked, more power hungry chips, AMD fans claim it's a victory since "no casual gamer cares about power consumption anyway" and cue Nvidia walking away with 95% of dGPU marketshare again.

Don't buy a Ryzen notebook then... Some OEM's are still only pushing out drivers made 12 months ago and won't support anything newer.
I had to get "creative" and work around that bullshit.

On the Desktop... I feel AMD's drivers are fairly solid... The UI on the other hand is fantastic. - Every-time I hop over to the nVidia rig and open up the drivers I feel like I am stuck in 1995, they are archaic.

haxxiy said:

Yeah, four years, I've edited it, sorry. I'll have to get a new one I guess, though nothing exceptional, just a stop-gap solution.

There's some RX 570s for $149 at Newegg, so perhaps that would be a good choice? Since it was a GTX 970 who broke, I'd be OK with a sidestep for $149.

RX 470 is $110. - Same GPU, just lower clocks. Nothing overclocking can't fix.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1DW-0003-000D5&Description=RX%20470&cm_re=RX_470-_-1DW-0003-000D5-_-Product






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