Fanatical111 said: The 360 will outsell the PS3 for various reasons in my opinion: 1. Business/Consumer Modelling In terms of business modelling, MS has done a fanatasic job gearing their product to a variety of consumers. Whether your interested in a shooter (Halo3), RPG (Mass Effect), JRPG (Lost Oddessy), Action RPG (Too Human) etc, there is a game for everyone. Sony does have several killer apps that will resident in sales, however, MS has a wider variety of great games. 2. Online As the console market gears more towards online gaming, MS will continue to have the edge. They are a software company and I am assured that they will always possess the superior online product. The integration of games is currently better then all the competition, in addition, developers are taking full advantage of this with DLC etc. Think about how many game demos the 360 has in comparison of the PS3. 3. Innovation Sony has developed an amazing piece of hardware, there is no doubt. However, in terms of gaming innovation they have not shown me anything yet. It is a fact that the PS3 costs about 2.5 to 3x more to develop for then that of the 360. For this reason, game developers can continue to create new franchises that would otherwise never be seen. In addition, due to the attach rate of the 360, they can almost be assured that there product will recoup its inital investment and be profitable. For example: -Too Human -Eternal Sonata (now multi) -Gears of War -Lost Oddessy -BioShock -Banjo Kaazoie 3 (Wasnt out last gen) -Mass Effect -Infinite Undiscovery -Alan Wake -Shadow Run -Halo Wars -Crackdown 4. Developer Support MS has attained a high level of support from a series of accalimed developers post in North America and abroad. Whether were talking about the giants being Square-Enix and Capcoms or the little guys such as MystWalker, all have stated that they will formally support the 360. If you recall back in the PS2 days, these developers were just beginning to form relationships with MS. Now that they have them, MS will continue to leverage support and continue to build its gaming library. 5. Who hasnt bought a console yet? If you havent already bought a PS3 or 360 I would consider you a "casual gamer". MS has a larger library of amazing games and that will only increase. As of today the PS3 has 2 games in the top 20 games that have been released, why would a "casual gamer" buy a product that has a less compelling lineup of games? Sure there is MGS4 and FF13 still coming but that takes there total to 4...to me still no reason to go and pick one up especially if I was a casual gamer.

Point 1 has some merit, though I don't agree that the 360 has even CLOSE to a comprehensive library of games. (granted, the PS3's isn't too good either, but as far as diversity goes, it's WAY better than the 360s)

Point 2 is right about M$'s online being better than PS3s, but if Home has trophies and In-game XMB, than Xbox Live doesn't look too much better than PSN (and it has NOTHING on Resistance 2's 60 player online and 8 player co-op.) Also, as far DLC/demos go, most multi-plat content now comes out at similar times/quality (and PSN actually got the Turok demo before XBL) and this trend will continue toward equality. Also, as far a downloadable games go, the PSN Store kicks XBLA's ass for comparable times from launch because Sony didn't put a limit on how big games can be. (for example, SSHD requires more than 300MB of HDD space)

Point 3: not even going to comment on this blatant fanboyism

Point 4: ok, so M$ got support from some devs now that they FINALLY made a sort of decent console. Great.

Point 5: WTH???!! are you still stuck in last July or something?? Have you ever even LOOKED at the respective exclusive line-ups for 2008-2009? The PS3 is going to see a LOT more AAA exclusives than the 360 and most PS3 exclusives are already better than 360 exclusives. (Uncharted anyone?) And all the games coming out aren't hardcore FPSs like most AAA 360 exclusives are (excepting Mass Effect) Have you ever heard of GT5 or LBP? (LBP is hardcore, and so is Wii Sports and Viva Pinata. give me a break) You've got a point about the pricing thing, but in case you haven't heard, Sony only spends $400 to make a 40GB PS3. That means they could sell it for $150 and still lose less money per console than they did at launch. Also, if Sony pulls off a surprise $100 price drop before M$ can do their $50 price drop, the 360 will be in big trouble.

 

Fanatical111 said: The 360 will outsell the PS3 for various reasons in my opinion: 1. Business/Consumer Modelling In terms of business modelling, MS has done a fanatasic job gearing their product to a variety of consumers. Whether your interested in a shooter (Halo3), RPG (Mass Effect), JRPG (Lost Oddessy), Action RPG (Too Human) etc, there is a game for everyone. Sony does have several killer apps that will resident in sales, however, MS has a wider variety of great games. 2. Online As the console market gears more towards online gaming, MS will continue to have the edge. They are a software company and I am assured that they will always possess the superior online product. The integration of games is currently better then all the competition, in addition, developers are taking full advantage of this with DLC etc. Think about how many game demos the 360 has in comparison of the PS3. 3. Innovation Sony has developed an amazing piece of hardware, there is no doubt. However, in terms of gaming innovation they have not shown me anything yet. It is a fact that the PS3 costs about 2.5 to 3x more to develop for then that of the 360. For this reason, game developers can continue to create new franchises that would otherwise never be seen. In addition, due to the attach rate of the 360, they can almost be assured that there product will recoup its inital investment and be profitable. For example: -Too Human -Eternal Sonata (now multi) -Gears of War -Lost Oddessy -BioShock -Banjo Kaazoie 3 (Wasnt out last gen) -Mass Effect -Infinite Undiscovery -Alan Wake -Shadow Run -Halo Wars -Crackdown 4. Developer Support MS has attained a high level of support from a series of accalimed developers post in North America and abroad. Whether were talking about the giants being Square-Enix and Capcoms or the little guys such as MystWalker, all have stated that they will formally support the 360. If you recall back in the PS2 days, these developers were just beginning to form relationships with MS. Now that they have them, MS will continue to leverage support and continue to build its gaming library. 5. Who hasnt bought a console yet? If you havent already bought a PS3 or 360 I would consider you a "casual gamer". MS has a larger library of amazing games and that will only increase. As of today the PS3 has 2 games in the top 20 games that have been released, why would a "casual gamer" buy a product that has a less compelling lineup of games? Sure there is MGS4 and FF13 still coming but that takes there total to 4...to me still no reason to go and pick one up especially if I was a casual gamer.

I think you would be surprised.

I own over 30 PS2 games so I don't consider myself a casual gamer.

And still I only bought my PS3 5 weeks ago.

Why ?

2 reasons :

1. I was too busy in Wow to think I would be able to dedicate enough time to my PS3

2. I was waiting for the PS3 to have a bigger game catalog ( but even with that I was still waiting to have more free time).

I play wow evernight with 25-30 harccore players that typically log like 30 hours+ a week and still we only recently started to chat about next gen consoles and only a few of us have bought one so far. For most of us the issue was free time, and it's looking like we will have more now, for a lot it is the killer game they are waiting for that isn't out yet ( FFXIII for a lot, not really surprising for Wow players).

 

 

1) NOT all PS2 users jumped to PS3(i`s about PES, FiFa, Madden, GH3, NFS - look at PS2 software sales).
2) Ratchet on PS3 has 10% attach rate. First Ratchet on PS2 with 115 mln. has 2,5% of attach rate.
3) Why not to wait 299$ price with Dulashok3?

CrazzyMan said: So, you're going to look at the (relatively) poor sales of Everybody's Golf, Ratchet and Clank, Virtua Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Pro Evolution Soccer, Fifa, Madden, Guitar Hero, Need for Speed, and pretty much every other game that has been released on the PS3 as the fans of these series haven't bought a PS3 yet? 1) NOT all PS2 users jumped to PS3(i`s about PES, FiFa, Madden, GH3, NFS - look at PS2 software sales). 2) Ratchet on PS3 has 10% attach rate. First Ratchet on PS2 with 115 mln. has 2,5% of attach rate. 3) Why not to wait 299$ price with Dulashok3?

I agree with #3 no one should be purchasing a ps3 at the moment. =P

CrazzyMan said: So, you're going to look at the (relatively) poor sales of Everybody's Golf, Ratchet and Clank, Virtua Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Pro Evolution Soccer, Fifa, Madden, Guitar Hero, Need for Speed, and pretty much every other game that has been released on the PS3 as the fans of these series haven't bought a PS3 yet? 1) NOT all PS2 users jumped to PS3(i`s about PES, FiFa, Madden, GH3, NFS - look at PS2 software sales). 2) Ratchet on PS3 has 10% attach rate. First Ratchet on PS2 with 115 mln. has 2,5% of attach rate. 3) Why not to wait 299$ price with Dulashok3?

1) Most PS2 owners will jump to Wii. Casual gamers were the majority on the PS2. 

2) Attach rates don't mean anything. Early adaptors will buy more games. That's why all your great comparissons of games favour the first game on a console, they want games and early in the lifecycle there's typically less games. Later in the console's life there are more quality games to choose so sales will decrease for a particular series (but increase on the whole of course).

3) I thought rumble was last-gen?  

 

CrazzyMan said: So, you're going to look at the (relatively) poor sales of Everybody's Golf, Ratchet and Clank, Virtua Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Pro Evolution Soccer, Fifa, Madden, Guitar Hero, Need for Speed, and pretty much every other game that has been released on the PS3 as the fans of these series haven't bought a PS3 yet? 1) NOT all PS2 users jumped to PS3(i`s about PES, FiFa, Madden, GH3, NFS - look at PS2 software sales). 2) Ratchet on PS3 has 10% attach rate. First Ratchet on PS2 with 115 mln. has 2,5% of attach rate. 3) Why not to wait 299$ price with Dulashok3?

So ... I take it this means that when these games come out and sell dramatically worse than you're expecting, you're going to declare it a victory because they have a better attach rate?

You're correct that not all PS2 users jumped to the PS3, in fact my point was that a large portion (potentially the vast majority) of PS2 users will never buy a PS3 because they have no particular attachment to games that are exclusive to the PS3. Many users who love Madden (for example), and may have bought an XBox 360 to play Madden, previously bought games like Gran Turismo because they enjoyed racing games; these same gamers are far more likely to buy Forza 2, Project Gothem Racing or Burnout than to buy a PS3 for Gran Turismo.

HappySqurriel said: CrazzyMan said: So, you're going to look at the (relatively) poor sales of Everybody's Golf, Ratchet and Clank, Virtua Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Pro Evolution Soccer, Fifa, Madden, Guitar Hero, Need for Speed, and pretty much every other game that has been released on the PS3 as the fans of these series haven't bought a PS3 yet? 1) NOT all PS2 users jumped to PS3(i`s about PES, FiFa, Madden, GH3, NFS - look at PS2 software sales). 2) Ratchet on PS3 has 10% attach rate. First Ratchet on PS2 with 115 mln. has 2,5% of attach rate. 3) Why not to wait 299$ price with Dulashok3? So ... I take it this means that when these games come out and sell dramatically worse than you're expecting, you're going to declare it a victory because they have a better attach rate? You're correct that not all PS2 users jumped to the PS3, in fact my point was that a large portion (potentially the vast majority) of PS2 users will never buy a PS3 because they have no particular attachment to games that are exclusive to the PS3. Many users who love Madden (for example), and may have bought an XBox 360 to play Madden, previously bought games like Gran Turismo because they enjoyed racing games; these same gamers are far more likely to buy Forza 2, Project Gothem Racing or Burnout than to buy a PS3 for Gran Turismo.

 Give me a minute while I translate this into Crazzy speak:1) NOT all of PS2 owners will buy a PS32)MADDEN fans will buy it on the system they own3) Gran Turismo Fans might buy Forza 24) I am a fish i am a fish i am a dfish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish i am a fish *spins arond three times and passes out* 

 

@elendar, It`s a MATTER of PREFERENCE. =)@BengaBenga, Ok, WHEN they will, TELL me. =))
Oh, GREAT, Now it doesn`t mean anything.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32472
Microsoft claims Xbox 360 has attach rate record.
I thought HDMI is NOT needed?

@HappySqurriel, So.. RATCHET PS3 LTD sales will be around 1 mln.? RIGHT? Or What are you saying? IF not, then HOW much then???



Tekken
Virtua Fighter
Soul calibur
Gran Turismo
Jack dexter
God of war
Wild arms
Front Mission
Metal Gear Solid
Z.O.E
Resident Evil
Silent Hill
Devil May cry
Final Fantasy
Kingdom Hearts
Medal Of Honor
Ridge Racer
Tales of ...
Disgaea
Valkyrie profile
Persona
Grand Theft Auto
Burnout
Team Ico games
Crash Bandicoot
Onimusha
Ace Combat
Ratchet and Clank
Xenosaga
Guitar Hero
Metal slug
Armored Core
Star ocean
Spyro
Breath of fire
Chrono ...
Grandia
Getaway
Socom
Jakuza
Hot Shot golf
Killzone
Driver

WHY PS2 users SHOULD abandon ALL THESE games in BOLD? DID any of those games sold MORE then GT? Why NOT yet?
For the records, in Japan ATTACH rate of GT5P(DEMO) today is MORE then Forza 2.

@crazzyman
Do you realize that most of your list
a. is multiplatform, or has been in the past (Spyro is the most obvious example. Another is that Chrono Trigger was on SNES, Cross on PS1. Awful example by the way, you have no idea where they would put it, since their has not been a Chrono game in nearly 10 years. I'm hoping they make a sequel for the Wii. Grandia, another example you have, was on the Saturn and the Dreamcast)
b. is unannounced (Tekken 6, which may be multiplatform, you never know)
or
c. is not a huge game (Team ICO has good games that don't sell, Killzone is a big question mark. Driver is crappy.)

Let me cut it down to a list of definite games people care about that have been announced to be exclusive to PS3.
1. Gran Turismo
2. Final Fantasy
To a lesser degree, these:
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Star Ocean (not sure if it was confirmed)

Kingdom Hearts 3 will not be for PS3. The list you gave reads like a little kid's letter to Santa. "I want this, and this, and this..." Sorry, you will be dissappointed.
The reason most of those games you listed were on the Playstation 1 and 2 was because they were the most successful consoles. Third parties aren't commited to one platform. They will jump ship before the shit hits the fan. Look at the N64. Final Fantasy had always been on Nintendo systems, but Square went for the more lucrative Playstation. This time, however, the Wii is the PS1 and the PS3 is more like the N64.

Thanks to Crazzyman, I can't watch Finding Nemo anymore.