By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Top reason why some Sony fans should quit Playstation and only buy Xbone

kitler53 on 15 June 2013
ArnoldRimmer said:
kitler53 said:

so you didn't read the second part i take it...

edit: just maybe you'll read it the second time through...

                 once transferred the original seller's rights end and the buyers begins.

You DO realize that a game uploaded to the internet was in most cases bought as well?

The main difference between a person selling a game and a person uploading a game to the internet is that by uploading a game to the internet, the bought disc is kind of being cloned, whereas there is still just one copy when a game is sold.

You can bring up legal definitions as much as you like, from the developers/publishers point of view, there is simply indeed very little difference: they only get money from the first person who bought the game new.

In practice, devs/publishers hate the used games probably even more, because on current consoles playing used games is much more common than playing pirated games, meaning: in practice, used games reduce the money they make more than pirated games. And that's the only thing that matters to them.

see my last post.



Around the Network
ShinmenTakezo on 15 June 2013
kitler53 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
kitler53 said:

so you didn't read the second part i take it...

edit: just maybe you'll read it the second time through...

                 once transferred the original seller's rights end and the buyers begins.

You DO realize that a game uploaded to the internet was in most cases bought as well?

The main difference between a person selling a game and a person uploading a game to the internet is that by uploading a game to the internet, the bought disc is kind of being cloned, whereas there is still just one copy when a game is sold.

You can bring up legal definitions as much as you like, from the developers/publishers point of view, there is simply indeed very little difference: they only get money from the first person who bought the game new.

In practice, devs/publishers hate the used games probably even more, because on current consoles playing used games is much more common than playing pirated games, meaning: in practice, used games reduce the money they make more than pirated games. And that's the only thing that matters to them.

see my last post.

I don't know how much clearer you can be, but I tried to help.



Wii_R2_Hardcore on 15 June 2013

I am OK with what some people call "hate".

I love my Xbox 360. But hate the idea behind the Xbone. I will do everything I can to prevent people feeding a monster like that.

Long live to Nintendo and Sony!
Fifaguy360 on 15 June 2013
kowenicki said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
kowenicki said:
kitler53 said:


they are very different...

piracy is taking someone else's work without consent, compensation, or even knowledge.

in used games the devs/publishers already got their money.  and agreement was made  between the seller (publisher/dev) and the buyer (me) to transfer ownership from one party to the next.  once transferred the original seller's rights end and the buyers begins.  honda can't tell me when/if/how i resell my car.   Shanile (the previous owner) cannot tell me when/if/how i resell my home.  MS/Sony/EA/Activision/whomever should have no say in when/if/how i resell my games. 

if you believe in property rights like i do pricinples are pretty simple:  piracy bad.  reselling good.


Fine... but you have to accept that the outcome for the developer, publisher and all the employees of the company are the same.

The person buying that used game has contributed just as much as a pirate to their business.... zero.

Thats not a right or wrong argument, thats just a fact.


You guys are totally missing the point.

A person who buys a used game is not the same as a pirate because the game was paid for. A pirate steals. The publisher doesn't deserve any money from a game I sell to a friend. Just like Warner bros. doesn't get money when I sell my movies. Apple doesn't get money when I sell my ipod. GMC doesn't get money when I sell my car. Why should game developers be any different? If you guys don't mind not being able to resell the things you own without kicking back some money to the original maker of the product, more power to you, but that is not how things work in the marketplace.

That wasnt my point.  Read my post again.  I was merely talking about the effect on the developer, its owners and its employees.  They gain precisely zero as a result of a used game sale... the same as a pirated game.

Unless DLC/Online pass, things of that nature were purchased.



steverhcp02 on 15 June 2013

The idea is good, but if its DRM at the console level then the registration is through MSFT. Not the point of purchase. So if a used game is "registered" or whatever is going to be the terminology there's still no guarantee its publisher/developer driven.

This is like saying the best reason last gen for Sony fans to support 360 was Xbox Live. Its a monthly fee to play a developers game when in reality it was money towards MSFT.

This is why there is really no solution to the used game issues aside from a publisher/developer direct fee. Online passes made sense as they werent a large fee and it was only to access the evolving updated online infrastructure that the publisher/developer was respoinsible for maintaining thus justifying the type of price.

At least personally speaking, this isnt a issue that is illegal. In fact i think used games are awful but its not illegal and its still a persons choice so i dont have a problem with it. I simply choose to buy my music, games, books new for that reason. I encourage others to do the same, but its a choice and I like that choice because people own products.

One developer had it right when they said they need to focus on making buying the new product more worthwhile. Forget season passes. Buy the game new, it comes with a season pass. problem solved.

Its not my place to force that ideal on anyone, especially in the way MSFT is when we dont even know the breakdown of the system and direct benefit to publishers/developers.




Get Your Portable ID!

Around the Network
ArnoldRimmer on 15 June 2013
kitler53 said:

see my last post.

I did, and I still think that you and others are simply talking at cross-purposes.

You seem to be trying to argue with theoretical legal details/rights, while others rather point to the practical real-world implications.



Wii_R2_Hardcore on 15 June 2013
kowenicki said:
kitler53 said:
Luiskpx said:
kitler53 said:
i'm trying to remember the discussion from back then but i don't really remember anyone saying they think used games are a bad as piracy. i just remember some pro-piracy guys trying to link used games and piracy to justify their piracy habits as "not any worse".


I just said that a few posts above, in both cases money doesnt go to devs, why are they any different?


they are very different...

piracy is taking someone else's work without consent, compensation, or even knowledge.

in used games the devs/publishers already got their money.  and agreement was made  between the seller (publisher/dev) and the buyer (me) to transfer ownership from one party to the next.  once transferred the original seller's rights end and the buyers begins.  honda can't tell me when/if/how i resell my car.   Shanile (the previous owner) cannot tell me when/if/how i resell my home.  MS/Sony/EA/Activision/whomever should have no say in when/if/how i resell my games. 

if you believe in property rights like i do pricinples are pretty simple:  piracy bad.  reselling good.


Fine... but you have to accept that the outcome for the developer, publisher and all the employees of the company are the same.

The person buying that used game has contributed just as much as a pirate to their business.... zero.

Thats not a right or wrong argument, thats just a fact.


WROOOONG! When people sell their cars what do they do with the money (yeah whatever they want) but usually they buy another car. 

When you are selling YOUR PROPERTY (your game) you BUY MORE GAMES! That is what keeps the industry healthy, because games have resell value. Microsoft is going to destroy the value of games and they will become like AN OLD newspaper, or toilet paper, products with just one user.
Zizzla_Rachet on 15 June 2013
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
I think this obsessional Microsoft hate is really poisoning this website :(.

Perhaps it would be best that this thread and other similar ones are just closed.


THIS



 



Luiskpx on 15 June 2013
Wii_R2_Hardcore said:


WROOOONG! When people sell their cars what do they do with the money (yeah whatever they want) but usually they buy another car. 

When you are selling YOUR PROPERTY (your game) you BUY MORE GAMES! That is what keeps the industry healthy, because games have resell value. Microsoft is going to destroy the value of games and they will become like AN OLD newspaper, or toilet paper, products with just one user.

So steam doesnt have value? Also, MS has said there will be a way to sell/buy used games, it will just be a bit harder than the way it is now so the option will be there for people who wants to do that

It might be me but i think game industry and car industry are too diferent to be compared?



Zizzla_Rachet on 15 June 2013
Wii_R2_Hardcore said:
kowenicki said:


Fine... but you have to accept that the outcome for the developer, publisher and all the employees of the company are the same.

The person buying that used game has contributed just as much as a pirate to their business.... zero.

Thats not a right or wrong argument, thats just a fact.


WROOOONG! When people sell their cars what do they do with the money (yeah whatever they want) but usually they buy another car. 

When you are selling YOUR PROPERTY (your game) you BUY MORE GAMES! That is what keeps the industry healthy, because games have resell value. Microsoft is going to destroy the value of games and they will become like AN OLD newspaper, or toilet paper, products with just one user.


"When people sell their cars what do they do with the money (yeah whatever they want) but usually they buy another car. "

 

You can't compare selling a used car to a used game...when you buy a used car you have to report it sold and also you have to go to the DMV and turn in your plates.... as the person buying  the car there are a number of things you have to do as well and things you have to pay for...

Buying used game like Kowen said contributes nothing to the developer...Xbox One is making it fair for a profesional buisness to thrive..people cliaming that they want disc based games with no DRM to sell and trade games are looking for a personal buissness...Times have changed...be ready to deal with the same thing as last gen..games coming first to XBOX One...Becuase you better beleive that the HardCore Xbox Live user base will be getting an Xbox one and that's all the buisness MS is going for..Would it be to much is Gamestop and gamefly game a percent of the profits to developers?....