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Forums - Gaming - "The Revolution", six years later.

 

Do you agree?

Yes 11 42.31%
 
No 15 57.69%
 
Total:26
NintendoPie said:
The Revolution deserves to have it's name, it was truly a Revolution and is still prominent. (Even though you don't seem to think so...) Nintendo left out the WiiMote? What? It was obviously in every single demo on the show floor.

Sony left out the Move? Well, I wonder why. Maybe because it just didn't sell well?

The Wii made a difference and is still a very prominent console in a lot of people's households. Maybe the Wii U isn't another Nintendo love child, but that doesn't mean Nintendo left their Revolution completely behind. It just means they lost their way. Maybe they'll see what it's done.


How exactly is it prominent? Go look at the highest-rated games of the generation on Metacritic. Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, GTA4... do any of them use motion controls? When was the last time that an AAA game was released and motion controls were a big part of it? And of course the Wii is still prominent in many houses, it sold nearly 100 million, but what does that prove?

I really want you to explain how it's still prominent.



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artur-fernand said:


Metroid Prime 3 and Skyward Sword did benefit from motion controls. But that's an extremely small fraction of all the games out there to call this a "revolution".

What about Nintendo's biggest game, Mario? Super Mario Galaxy only uses it to control the pointer on the screen. It's not exactly a ground-breaking use of the technology.

Every game doesn't have to be groundbreaking or completely replace traditional controls with motion controls for them to be significant. Galaxy wouldn't be unplayable without motion controls, but they are seamlessly woven into the experience. Collecting star bits, flinging them at enemies, and the waggle-attack are natural parts of the game. Nintendo uses this approach with most of their modern games, incorporating motion controls into nearly all of them to some degree.

Isn't it the same way the analog stick developed? The first controller to feature the analog stick was the N64 trident. On that controller, the stick and the d-pad were on seperate handles; their use was mutually exclusive. You could not use both at the same time, and rarely used both in the same game. The analog stick was intended to replace the d-pad. But that's not what happened. Developers learned to think of the analog stick and d-pad not as alternatives, but as compliments. Now the d-pad is still used as the main form of control in many 2D games, and is given a different (but vital) function in many 3D games. You even see touchscreen games often trying to incorporate a virtual d-pad.

The analog stick did not replace the d-pad, and motion controls need not replace button input to achieve the same revolutionary effect.



artur-fernand said:
Gamerace said:
LOL!!! Are you kidding me?! You are truly blind if you cannot see the fundamental shift the Wii/DS caused. It brought the mass market into the gaming sphere. And they are still here and GROWING. True, Nintendo all but abandoned their own 'blue ocean' strategy after 2010/11 instead relying on retro games more and more (NSMB, M:oM, DCKR, Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, NSMB2, Mario Kart 7, etc., etc)

But what Nintendo started Apple perfected and Android adopted and that market is quickly outstripping the traditional console market with it's simple swipe/touch controls. Successful mobile devs are racking in 10's of millions while traditional console devs struggle to stay in the black. Soon they'll be buying them up and converting them (like TenCent buying shares in Epic).

The Revolution is here to stay. Nintendo just failed to stay on the wave.


What? You completely missed the point. Yes, the Wii and DS appealed to the non-gamers, but if you ask me, the casual crowd is lost to smartphones and tablets.

I'm talking about the motion controls. What difference did that make to gaming general? In fact, think about the best games of the generation and then think if they use motion controls and HOW they use it (does it really change the gaming experience in an unique way?).

You're still deluding yourself.  WiiU gamepad has built in motion sensors and it still uses Wiimotes.  Every Xbox One has Kinect 2.0 and every single PS4 controller has a glowing light for - yes - motion controls.  Every smartphone, tablet and hybrid laptop has motion sensors and everyone of those devices uses motion in it's games (not every single game...).  It may be more tilt now rather than swinging motions (except wiimotes/Kinect/Move) but motion controls are now as much a part of gaming as rumble feedback and analog sticks.  In fact moseso because most people game with smartphones/tablets now which only has motion/touch.

The 'core' console gamer has been resistant to using motion.  And since Sony is targeting that market exactly - is why they ignored it for E3 (but still supporting Move into PS4).  MS is obviously very much interested in the mass market, enough to make Kinect non-optional.  Nintendo?  I honestly don't know what the f--- they were thinking with the gamepad.   It was a regressive move that lost them the very audience they gained with Wii.   They should have taken motion controls FURTHER- integrating a small touch screen on a modified wiimote (with an analog stick this time) and refined the experience.   Going back to dual analog was the stupidest thing they could have possibly done (aside from pricing it at $599).



 

artur-fernand said:


How exactly is it prominent? Go look at the highest-rated games of the generation on Metacritic. Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, GTA4... do any of them use motion controls? When was the last time that an AAA game was released and motion controls were a big part of it? And of course the Wii is still prominent in many houses, it sold nearly 100 million, but what does that prove?

I really want you to explain how it's still prominent.

What does that prove? Are you kidding me?

It obviously proves that something different caught on and did well. It proves that it seriously did create a revolution in the gaming industry.

@Bold; Did you not read the sentence where I said Nintendo still had the WiiMote at E3?



the_dengle said:
artur-fernand said:


Metroid Prime 3 and Skyward Sword did benefit from motion controls. But that's an extremely small fraction of all the games out there to call this a "revolution".

What about Nintendo's biggest game, Mario? Super Mario Galaxy only uses it to control the pointer on the screen. It's not exactly a ground-breaking use of the technology.

Every game doesn't have to be groundbreaking or completely replace traditional controls with motion controls for them to be significant. Galaxy wouldn't be unplayable without motion controls, but they are seamlessly woven into the experience. Collecting star bits, flinging them at enemies, and the waggle-attack are natural parts of the game. Nintendo uses this approach with most of their modern games, incorporating motion controls into nearly all of them to some degree.

Isn't it the same way the analog stick developed? The first controller to feature the analog stick was the N64 trident. On that controller, the stick and the d-pad were on seperate handles; their use was mutually exclusive. You could not use both at the same time, and rarely used both in the same game. The analog stick was intended to replace the d-pad. But that's not what happened. Developers learned to think of the analog stick and d-pad not as alternatives, but as compliments. Now the d-pad is still used as the main form of control in many 2D games, and is given a different (but vital) function in many 3D games. You even see touchscreen games often trying to incorporate a virtual d-pad.

The analog stick did not replace the d-pad, and motion controls need not replace button input to achieve the same revolutionary effect.


It did not replace it in the sense that d-pads still existe, but in terms of controlling the character's movements, the analog stick did replace the d-pad. Every single game use tem. 3D games would be a pain to control with d-pads. And I don't even see motion controls being used as a compliment in a lot of games.



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NintendoPie said:
artur-fernand said:


How exactly is it prominent? Go look at the highest-rated games of the generation on Metacritic. Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, GTA4... do any of them use motion controls? When was the last time that an AAA game was released and motion controls were a big part of it? And of course the Wii is still prominent in many houses, it sold nearly 100 million, but what does that prove?

I really want you to explain how it's still prominent.

What does that prove? Are you kidding me?

It obviously proves that something different caught on and did well. It proves that it seriously did create a revolution in the gaming industry.

@Bold; Did you not read the sentence where I said Nintendo still had the WiiMote at E3?

All you're telling me is "Nintendo is still using the Wiimote" (which I admitted I made a mistake in this regard) and "a lot of people still own a Wii". Okay... so what? The Wiimote is their technology, so it was on E3. Nothing more natural. And a lot of people own the Wii because it appealed to the non-gamers. The casual market.  My point is, I don't see motion controls being used in most games, just on a few ones, to mixed results.



artur-fernand said:


How exactly is it prominent? Go look at the highest-rated games of the generation on Metacritic. Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, GTA4... do any of them use motion controls? When was the last time that an AAA game was released and motion controls were a big part of it? And of course the Wii is still prominent in many houses, it sold nearly 100 million, but what does that prove?

I really want you to explain how it's still prominent.

Why is critical reception relevant, but the quantity of games which utilize motion controls is not? Why aren't sales relevant, for that matter? Shall we look at the highest-selling games of the generation? No, of course not.

Furthermore, if critical reception is so relevant, why focus on Metacritic and not GameRankings? I suppose that we be because the two highest-rated games of the generation on GameRankings did, in fact, use motion controls. 9 out of the 11 Wii games that scored 90% or higher on GameRankings used motion controls -- some of them as an intrinsic part of gameplay.

Sure, PS3 and 360 don't have many highly-rated motion-controlled games. That's because Kinect is bad and nobody bought Move, so nobody invested in developing real games for it.



DM235 said:
You are forgetting the other "revolution" this generation.

Game updates after launch, DLC and microtransactions. Although these probably allowed developers to reduce costs or meet tighter deadlines, it meant gamers sometimes got beta software or day 1 DLC...

Wii U is joining this revolution...

^This IMO, was the real revolution.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

artur-fernand said:

All you're telling me is "Nintendo is still using the Wiimote" (which I admitted I made a mistake in this regard) and "a lot of people still own a Wii". Okay... so what? The Wiimote is their technology, so it was on E3. Nothing more natural. And a lot of people own the Wii because it appealed to the non-gamers. The casual market.  My point is, I don't see motion controls being used in most games, just on a few ones, to mixed results.

The reason why you don't really see many Motion-Controlled games getting good reviews is because they are usually made to be horrible games. They are just cheap games to get some cash. The only studios that get their Motion Controls right (be it Nintendo or MS) are usually the first-party. Which makes perfect sense, really.

And I don't see how that doesn't prove my point, but fine.



artur-fernand said:


It did not replace it in the sense that d-pads still existe, but in terms of controlling the character's movements, the analog stick did replace the d-pad. Every single game use tem. 3D games would be a pain to control with d-pads. And I don't even see motion controls being used as a compliment in a lot of games.

Really? Because Nintendo, the biggest software publisher in the world, uses them in almost all of their modern games. Many third parties adopt them in their Wii U ports. And true or not, surely you have heard the phrase "better with Kinect."