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Forums - Microsoft - Why Microsoft feels DRM will not have much negative impact

 

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dane007 said:
BinaryDelt said:
dane007 said:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-13-xbox-one-check-in-will-need-kilobytes-not-megabytes for those who worry about connection . You can even use phone tethering to connect .

I think the point that gets people most upset is being treated like criminals.  It's like the cops knocking on your door once a day to make sure you're not breaking the law.


Tell me this " do you think it is right fro a person  to borrow firneds copy of the game and finish single player an plays hours of multiplayer without havging to paya single dime for the game amnd relies on doing that? Do you think thats right and legal? No it looks like  games today are reluctant to change. its obvious that we will eventually get to that stage in gaming where everythign will be on interent and everythign digital.  It almost as if gamers want to saty behind and not progress/ The days that we had back in the 80s, 90s and 00s are not goign to stay forerv. As technology so will the ways we will game.  Stea, does somethign imilar to what MS is doing. I have a friedn ho is harcore steam fan and he after lookng at MS policy said it reminds him of steam. He said the policy are not a big deal . My friend hates consoles and oves pc and he veen consoles conssle gamer infidels noobs but after watching xbox one E3 he preordered xboxone  which will be his first console purchase in his life lol. The checkign s bewcayse you are using teh ctsuss from tbhe cloud so they are just making sure no one is stealing the game for free. I am sureyou wo 't even relise it happeneing while its being performed in background whil e playing

Yes, I think it's right and legal to loan a game to my friend without them paying a single dime.  Or a movie...or a book.  It gets them engaged in something they may have otherwise just passed over otherwise.

I loaned my copy of Uncharted: Drake's Fortune to a friend who had never played it.  They liked it so much they went right out and bought Uncharted 2: Among Thieves thereafter and preordered Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception.  Now that friend is getting The Last of Us because they've become a fan of Naughty Dog's.  That's 3 games from one studio that my friend may not have touched otherwise had I not loaned him 1 game for free.

Sharing is part of the experience and what gets us excited and engaged in our hobbies, and Sony gets that.

PS - Not trying to be mean, but please proofread your post before submitting.  It was very hard to read.



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richardhutnik said:
BinaryDelt said:
Damnyouall said:

Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi: "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

"...We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

That's the core of the issue right there.  They see their consumers as data points, not gamers.  I understand it's a business, but this is a little insulting.  He's right, there are a lot of "I only play Call of Duty" gamers and uninformed parents that will buy it, as well as a casual gamers that won't bother with the details, but that's no reason to take advantage of them.  He's really admitting that they are exploiting the uninformed consumer because the research says they'll get away with it.  When that consumer goes to trade in their game or their piss-poor rural internet is acting up, they may not be so uninformed anymore.

A lot of these uninformed consumers know at least one person like us, who is more than willing to offer their opinion on such matters.  The magnitude of the backlash of their decisions has already been big enough to escape internet forums and video game blogs and enter the mainstream media outlets.  Once online reviews of these consoles open up after launch, that will factor as well.  I think they're underestimating the consumer, as well as the quantity of information available to customers.

The simplest part?  They're missing that no matter how uninformed a consumer is, money talks, and the PS4 is $100 cheaper.

How about this: If someone is dropping like $500 for a new platform to play content, and there are competitors out there, why wouldn't they pay attention more?  A $500 purchase is NOT something parents will do lightly.  A new game console isn't like a smart phone, or even a tablet, which are argued to be needed.  What a console is, is an optional toy.  Microsoft expects customers to NOT pay attention?

Good point.  They are technically saying that they fully expect people to pay attention and that their "data points" indicate consumers will side with them.  It's just hard to believe they think that will work.



dane007 said:

I didn't say you should rebuy it. I said your brother should make his own account and buy his own games using his account. Theres a difference here. It is piracy here as for each game a person doens't buy and borrow  to finish it ,, is equivalent to one less copy. Now if millions and millions do that , then milliosn of potential sales would have been lost. Imagine a good company misses target sales by 500k but finds out the game has been pirated 3 million times and now faces shutting down. Whos fault is that when it could have been prevented if you weren't allowed to share it like that. The reason why they are more strict because gamers these days are doign it more often we as gamners made thm do it by being chep skates. If you can't afford to buy the game ,, jsut wait till tis cheap. Is it that much important to polay the game straight away? Do you even know what Piracy means?

Um not all games. Metro2033 on steam requires me to be onlin just to get steam s you need steam to launch the game. You can't just put the game in an dlaunch it without launching steam. That itslef reyqures always on internet conenction. Same with Red faction armageddon. I have these games on pc hence why i know it requires an internet connection to just play the game. Haha pc market does not make as much as consoles. Wicther 2 doesn't have DRM and it was a bloddy good rpg yet people rather pirate it then pay fro the game. If teh game weren't pirated then teh dveloper would have attained bigger profit which would be useful to the company as its a small studio and any profit is good profit for them. PC gamers are generally cheap skates lol. There alot of good games that hav ebeen pirated alot because people don't want to buy it and pc games are genrally cheaper then cpnsoles by quite a bit  especially where i am based at .
Witcher company is against DRM hece the GOG site adn yet the game was pirated 4.5 millions time. What can you say to that?

 

"Microsoft is adding DRM for the sake of annoying it's legitimate customers, if people are going to mod and pirate games, they are going to do it regardless of a 24 hour check in or not, they will just disable that functionality." I am sure Ms woudl find a way to prevent it.  Gamers have to learn that nothing is free in life.. If you want to play game ,, spend the cash for it and if you can't afford it  then wait for a discount . Simple enough right?

By your logic, the fact that everyone in my house shares the same toilet is piracy.



dane007 said:
richardhutnik said:
dane007 said:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-13-xbox-one-check-in-will-need-kilobytes-not-megabytes for those who worry about connection . You can even use phone tethering to connect .

Why should someone have to bother doing tethering or whatever, for a device that plays game content?  Why demand the do this?  And that check in is lame.  It is ONLY, and I repeat ONLY for authentication.  It has NOTHING for doing updates or whatever?  It is just for cracking down on used game sales, and really nothing else.

Why do people play steam? Why do people  need to conenct onlien to play games on steam?  Why is steam really popular? Is the way of teh future and irts boudn to happen  .  Sharing gaems to friends hwo would never pay a diem and repa the benefits of finishing the SP and multiplayer is worng and piracy. Whats teh difference in waitign  for a new game to drop in price then buyign teh second hand game. As you gusy buy it because its cheaper right? Why ot wait for ne game to drop in price.Same concept right .

1. Your spelling is horrible here.  Not sure what the heck you are saying.  I can try to decode it, but not bothering here.  Maybe you are trying to type via a portable device.

2. Stream is a different beast.  The whole tethering is a bunch of work you have to do, to get it to work.  Steam is what you have installed and you can click on it and view.  You can also have it start up in offline mode.  It is an entirely different beast.  My comment went to the demands to do extra work just to get the ownership authentication to work.  People don't want to put up with extra work just to placate  company.



BinaryDelt said:
richardhutnik said:
BinaryDelt said:
Damnyouall said:

Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi: "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

"...We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

That's the core of the issue right there.  They see their consumers as data points, not gamers.  I understand it's a business, but this is a little insulting.  He's right, there are a lot of "I only play Call of Duty" gamers and uninformed parents that will buy it, as well as a casual gamers that won't bother with the details, but that's no reason to take advantage of them.  He's really admitting that they are exploiting the uninformed consumer because the research says they'll get away with it.  When that consumer goes to trade in their game or their piss-poor rural internet is acting up, they may not be so uninformed anymore.

A lot of these uninformed consumers know at least one person like us, who is more than willing to offer their opinion on such matters.  The magnitude of the backlash of their decisions has already been big enough to escape internet forums and video game blogs and enter the mainstream media outlets.  Once online reviews of these consoles open up after launch, that will factor as well.  I think they're underestimating the consumer, as well as the quantity of information available to customers.

The simplest part?  They're missing that no matter how uninformed a consumer is, money talks, and the PS4 is $100 cheaper.

How about this: If someone is dropping like $500 for a new platform to play content, and there are competitors out there, why wouldn't they pay attention more?  A $500 purchase is NOT something parents will do lightly.  A new game console isn't like a smart phone, or even a tablet, which are argued to be needed.  What a console is, is an optional toy.  Microsoft expects customers to NOT pay attention?

Good point.  They are technically saying that they fully expect people to pay attention and that their "data points" indicate consumers will side with them.  It's just hard to believe they think that will work.

Not paying attention is what you do with gum at the checkout when buying.  It is NOT for something you plan on having in the center of the living room.  And this not paying attention is going to get Microsoft in trouble.  Guy buys it as the centerpiece of their living room, and then has issues with the Internet.  They didn't realize it had to check in every 24 hours.  They find out their XBOX ONE isn't playing games, because they have an issue with their router or something.  Being in their living room, it access the Internet via WiFi.  They are now irate the system isn't playing games, and they call Microsoft about it.  Tech support WILL get these calls.  



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Damnyouall said:

When asked about the negative reaction of the internet and E3 towards Xbone's DRM, Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi replied: "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

Sounds to me like he is saying that they will get away with the DRM because most consumers are too ignorant. Do you agree?

Well that's the main discouraging theory, but of course that's not true and it will never be true.

Look at the Facebook pages of Sony, Microsoft or even Gamestop and such. Look at video games forums, looks are video games blogs BUT ALSO at general tech blogs or consumer blog.

There's a HUGE backlash.

Plus we tend to forget that video games is a FAN market, wether people are 16 or 30, MOST video game consumer AREN'T casuals.



sounds quite similar to what i heard one of their execs saying earlier about hardcore gamers buying anything blindly



ViktorBKK said:

Physical copies of Activision & Bethesda require Steam as well. My point was that even mega publishers go through Steam, because it maximises their profit. I believe you agree with that. Steam has a fixed % cut for digital purchases, I don't know if they get a cut for physical steam-enabled copies. Other than that, the publisher/developer sets the price. Personally, I don't care for call of duty. If I can get cool games like Alan Wake or Hitman Absolution for less than 10 bucks, then I'm cool with that. To be honest though, since I got Playstation Plus I don't have nearly enough time to finish the games I get from there, so go figure ^^.

Now you may not like Steam, but I assure you the Xbox marketplace will be A LOT more expensive. And yes you are wrong, the Bone will fail. Massively. DRM or not, 500 dollars is completely out of touch with the market.

Publishers go through steam because it is a widley used DRM platform that removes ownership from the user and results in no second hand market or (legal) way to lend/give away games which in turn results in being more profitable(in publishers eyes, I can go into the benifits of the used market but thats a long discussion). XBone could potentially be the console equivalent of that(though Im not sure what is going to happen with the 10 person share thing). I agree MS store will be a lot more expensive based on their abysmal(save for the occasional sale) G.O.D and GFWL digital services. $500 isnt too far off from $400 and people will go after it if their favorite games are exclusive to that system. There is a legion of "hardcore" gamers on the internet + many vocal fanboys. This is not a representation of the average consumer(which probably makes up 90+% of the market) or how the gen is going to go. If MS can exclusively secure popular games because of the DRM their machine provides it will be a success and will dictate the direction of next gen.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

CDiablo said:
ViktorBKK said:

Physical copies of Activision & Bethesda require Steam as well. My point was that even mega publishers go through Steam, because it maximises their profit. I believe you agree with that. Steam has a fixed % cut for digital purchases, I don't know if they get a cut for physical steam-enabled copies. Other than that, the publisher/developer sets the price. Personally, I don't care for call of duty. If I can get cool games like Alan Wake or Hitman Absolution for less than 10 bucks, then I'm cool with that. To be honest though, since I got Playstation Plus I don't have nearly enough time to finish the games I get from there, so go figure ^^.

Now you may not like Steam, but I assure you the Xbox marketplace will be A LOT more expensive. And yes you are wrong, the Bone will fail. Massively. DRM or not, 500 dollars is completely out of touch with the market.

Publishers go through steam because it is a widley used DRM platform that removes ownership from the user and results in no second hand market or (legal) way to lend/give away games which in turn results in being more profitable(in publishers eyes, I can go into the benifits of the used market but thats a long discussion). XBone could potentially be the console equivalent of that(though Im not sure what is going to happen with the 10 person share thing). I agree MS store will be a lot more expensive based on their abysmal(save for the occasional sale) G.O.D and GFWL digital services. $500 isnt too far off from $400 and people will go after it if their favorite games are exclusive to that system. There is a legion of "hardcore" gamers on the internet + many vocal fanboys. This is not a representation of the average consumer(which probably makes up 90+% of the market) or how the gen is going to go. If MS can exclusively secure popular games because of the DRM their machine provides it will be a success and will dictate the direction of next gen.

For the time being, I see all the big 3rd party titles releasing on both systems. Exclusives? Both Sony's and Microsoft's lineup leave me unimpressed for the time being. I didn't see a "Gears of War" system seller in either presentation. To me, this next generation is going to be about value. Exclusives won't matter as much. There are way too many games releasing every month, more than a person can play.

Either way, we'll see how it goes. My prediction is that Xbox One will be one of the worst console launches in history. Steep price, mandatory kinect & confusion caused by online requirements. They really couldn't do any worse even if they tried.



CDiablo said:

Publishers go through steam because it is a widley used DRM platform that removes ownership from the user and results in no second hand market or (legal) way to lend/give away games which in turn results in being more profitable(in publishers eyes, I can go into the benifits of the used market but thats a long discussion).


Actually. You can legally "Gift" games on Steam and if a Publisher feels inclined they might give you a second copy to give away which has happened to me a few times in the past.
Besides, games are far cheaper and sales are plentifull.

More often than not a game on sale on Steam is actually a fraction of the cost of a used game at Game Stop or EB games. (Think, $2-$5.)
For example, the entire "The Witcher" franchise is on sale right now for only $6.79 AUD on Steam.
Buy that twice and give a copy away, still cheaper than buying it second hand on the consoles.

Also plenty of Free-to-play games available too if that floats your boat.




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