By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - XBONE having problems with eSRAM yield. Crazy Buttocks confirms.

kitler53 on 05 June 2013
Lafiel said:
kitler53 said:


not sure i follow.  which part are you not sure about?  didn't molyneux leave MS?  what are the two possible routes? 

Yea, I ment, that MS probably don't want to burn billions of cash to ensure Xbox1 is successful. Molyneux left MS, but he said that when he was still there they had 2 concepts for the next Xbox, one was a budget machine and one a high-end machine, but both were designed to be profitable from the start.

i'm sure thye don't want to burn money.  now one wants to lose money.  but MS knows what they are making on xbox 360 right now.  if they think an investment can return more users (expand into tv, capture sony fans, new subsriptions, ect) they'll do it.  it remains to be seen if they are good investments but any investment has an element of risk.    ..but the worst thing ever is the make all these investments and then let a "little" issue like yeild take down the farm. 

..it's like in poker when you know you know hand isn't the strongest but you have so much money on the table you can't fold.  between games, nfl, halo TV show, hardware R&D, azure cloud thing,.. MS is probably a good 3-5 billion invested already.  maybe more.   they'll take a short term hit if they have to just like sony did with the ps3.  hopefully the gamble works out better for MS than it did for sony.



Around the Network
teigaga on 05 June 2013

Welp!

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



Heavenly_King on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
SonyHeavyMetal92 said:
Icy-Zone said:
Speculation is that the One will be gimped down to 800-900 GigaFlops. The PS4 has 1.86 TeraFlops and is built using identical architecture as the One. So basically games that run at 720p 30fps on the Xbox One will port over to the PS4 and run at 1080p 60fps (Typical of how PC games run multiplat games). MS effectively created a weaker and more unstable console that costs more to produce than their competitor. If this isn't the final nail in the coffin for them, I don't know what is.


If this all ends up being true during the xbox press conference at E3... imagine the chaos! it will end up being a windows 8 catastrophe all over again :P

WIndows 8 just sold 100 million copies a couple of weeks ago.

I love how people repeat some blogs, but the reality is different. If Windows 8 would be that big of a failure, MS stock price would not be on a 6 year high.

I agree with the windows 8 stuff.  Some sites tell it is selling like shit, while the official numbers are not bad; not windows 7 good; but still good.



Open World-Survival-Game Days Gone

Heavenly_King on 05 June 2013
Rafux said:
All previous rumours about the Xbox One became true, I'm gonna go ahead and believe this one is correct too.

The same here.  All the rumors regarding the XB1 have been true so far, so with this console rumors are true until proved otherwise.



Open World-Survival-Game Days Gone

DirtyP2002 on 05 June 2013
kitler53 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
...

i was going to rebuttle with that but you beat me too it.  downclocking now would really fuck up all the games currently in developement and limit future potential (without cloud assist which if I were MS I wouldn't rely on after the always online fallout).

 

also, it's just a little air-born..

wait wait wait... you can fix that with a more expensive chipset?

if you downclock the initial shippments to achieve better yeilds you can't really fix that later.  unless MS is prepared to go the route of multi-spec consoles every xbone console will be down-speced for the entire generation.

if you stick to your orignal spec and the yeilds are currently low the intial shipments will have expensive chipsets (~chip cost = (wafer cost)/((chips per waffer)*(yeild%)) ) and probably lower stock at launch.  that cost will quickly come down in price when the yeild issues are figured out in what i'll assume is a few months time.

..or you delay until 2014.

 

I think those are the three options if the rumor is true.


Would the games that are currently in development work on a downclocked console? So these titles were built with better specs in mind for 2 or more years now.
They can't just change the specs 3-4 months before the game needs to be gold, can they?

IF this rumor is true, MS will probably have to invest in better chips then.

Problem solved.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Around the Network
kitler53 on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
..

if you downclock the initial shippments to achieve better yeilds you can't really fix that later.  unless MS is prepared to go the route of multi-spec consoles every xbone console will be down-speced for the entire generation.

if you stick to your orignal spec and the yeilds are currently low the intial shipments will have expensive chipsets (~chip cost = (wafer cost)/((chips per waffer)*(yeild%)) ) and probably lower stock at launch.  that cost will quickly come down in price when the yeild issues are figured out in what i'll assume is a few months time.

..or you delay until 2014.

 

I think those are the three options if the rumor is true.


Would the games that are currently in development work on a downclocked console? So these titles were built with better specs in mind for 2 or more years now.
They can't just change the specs 3-4 months before the game needs to be gold, can they?

IF this rumor is true, MS will probably have to invest in better chips then.

Problem solved.

um.. i don't really know with the facts i have.

if things are truely as scalable as they industry would like to say they are then i suppose it wouldn't be too bad.  if they had 6-12 months heads up it would probably be just fine.  with 3-4 months notice it probably would cause delays.  even if the dev work is nothing the QA/testing work would probaly push things back. 

alternatively, the rumor started a long time ago so maybe MS gave developers lower target specs in hopes they could raise them later.  ..kind of like how killzone:SF was built with 4Gb of ram in mind and then sony announced 8Gb.  if that was the case there wouldn't be any game delays.  there have been developer statements to the gist that xbone is noticably lower speced than ps4 so this  is a real posibility, imo.



Xenostar on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
...

i was going to rebuttle with that but you beat me too it.  downclocking now would really fuck up all the games currently in developement and limit future potential (without cloud assist which if I were MS I wouldn't rely on after the always online fallout).

 

also, it's just a little air-born..

wait wait wait... you can fix that with a more expensive chipset?

if you downclock the initial shippments to achieve better yeilds you can't really fix that later.  unless MS is prepared to go the route of multi-spec consoles every xbone console will be down-speced for the entire generation.

if you stick to your orignal spec and the yeilds are currently low the intial shipments will have expensive chipsets (~chip cost = (wafer cost)/((chips per waffer)*(yeild%)) ) and probably lower stock at launch.  that cost will quickly come down in price when the yeild issues are figured out in what i'll assume is a few months time.

..or you delay until 2014.

 

I think those are the three options if the rumor is true.


Would the games that are currently in development work on a downclocked console? So these titles were built with better specs in mind for 2 or more years now.
They can't just change the specs 3-4 months before the game needs to be gold, can they?

IF this rumor is true, MS will probably have to invest in better chips then.

Problem solved.

I guess that would solve the problem, but they wouldnt have enough time to launch this year. 



DirtyP2002 on 05 June 2013
Xenostar said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
...

i was going to rebuttle with that but you beat me too it.  downclocking now would really fuck up all the games currently in developement and limit future potential (without cloud assist which if I were MS I wouldn't rely on after the always online fallout).

 

also, it's just a little air-born..

wait wait wait... you can fix that with a more expensive chipset?

if you downclock the initial shippments to achieve better yeilds you can't really fix that later.  unless MS is prepared to go the route of multi-spec consoles every xbone console will be down-speced for the entire generation.

if you stick to your orignal spec and the yeilds are currently low the intial shipments will have expensive chipsets (~chip cost = (wafer cost)/((chips per waffer)*(yeild%)) ) and probably lower stock at launch.  that cost will quickly come down in price when the yeild issues are figured out in what i'll assume is a few months time.

..or you delay until 2014.

 

I think those are the three options if the rumor is true.


Would the games that are currently in development work on a downclocked console? So these titles were built with better specs in mind for 2 or more years now.
They can't just change the specs 3-4 months before the game needs to be gold, can they?

IF this rumor is true, MS will probably have to invest in better chips then.

Problem solved.

I guess that would solve the problem, but they wouldnt have enough time to launch this year. 

why?



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Xenostar on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
Xenostar said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
kitler53 said:
...

i was going to rebuttle with that but you beat me too it.  downclocking now would really fuck up all the games currently in developement and limit future potential (without cloud assist which if I were MS I wouldn't rely on after the always online fallout).

 

also, it's just a little air-born..

wait wait wait... you can fix that with a more expensive chipset?

if you downclock the initial shippments to achieve better yeilds you can't really fix that later.  unless MS is prepared to go the route of multi-spec consoles every xbone console will be down-speced for the entire generation.

if you stick to your orignal spec and the yeilds are currently low the intial shipments will have expensive chipsets (~chip cost = (wafer cost)/((chips per waffer)*(yeild%)) ) and probably lower stock at launch.  that cost will quickly come down in price when the yeild issues are figured out in what i'll assume is a few months time.

..or you delay until 2014.

 

I think those are the three options if the rumor is true.


Would the games that are currently in development work on a downclocked console? So these titles were built with better specs in mind for 2 or more years now.
They can't just change the specs 3-4 months before the game needs to be gold, can they?

IF this rumor is true, MS will probably have to invest in better chips then.

Problem solved.

I guess that would solve the problem, but they wouldnt have enough time to launch this year. 

why?

Changing to a differnt chip would take quite a bit of time. I think there too far down this road to start again, PS3 also had yeild problems when they first started making them, i would think MS would just try and solve the problems than go to a new chip now.  Plus if you think devs would be pissed about losing 200mhz, you would have to fear the wrath if you moved to a differnt architecture.

 

If these rumours are even true. 



ethomaz on 05 June 2013
walsufnir said:

You are right but it will only increase costs for MS and won't effect performance. It is like this gen: 360 is way easier than the complex ps3. But I think it is doubtable that MS will never achieve comparable outcome of wafers and I doubt that costs will always stay higher - it also depends on how much chips you order. Also keep in mind that when looking at system-performance you have to consider every part of the system. For example, SHAPE is built so that sound-processing won't need any CPU-performance. It is not like "we add everything together and we know how much it'll be better". But yes, overall $ony has an advantage also in my opinion.

I agree.

In my opinion the Xbone maybe have issues with the chip yelds now but for the launch and next year production that will be not a issue.

That's not change the fact the Sony can produce more chips per Wafer than Microsoft because the small/simple vs. big/complex... the Xbone's chip will be always more expensive than PS4's chip.

Now my guesses about the full history...

MS always wanted 8GB RAM for Xbone because the TV/PC apps... so at the time to design and create the project the option to use GDDR5 was discarded due the high bost to use a 32 GDDR5 chips to archive 8GB (in 2012 only the 2Gbps module was in production... 256MB per chip... so 32 for 8GB).... so they decided to use DDR3 to archive 8GB using eSRAM do avoid the bottlenecks created by the low bandwidth of the RAM.

Sony always focused in games only... so they decided to go with 4GB using 16 chips of GDDR5.

These was the initial project/design of both... MS didn't changed anything because a change in memory controller (DDR3 to GDDR5) a year before the product release is a dead move... no company can make that... so if they go for any change a delay in the Xbone release will be needed... so they stay with 16xDD3 for 8GB RAM.

Sony have a good lucky because the memory manufactures launched the 4Gbps (512MG) GDDR5 modules in early 2013... so what the cost to change the 16xGDDR5 chips to other 16xGDDR5 chips? None... it is like you open your computer and replace the 1GB RAM module for other with 2GB RAM module... no project/design change... nothing change... and at the end the same 8GB RAM matching Xbone.

If the 4Gbps GDDR5 modules was not ready in early 2013 then the PS4 will be showed with only 4GB but Sony received a gift and the main advantage of Xbone was vanished.

This time even the luck is on the Sony side