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Forums - Politics - Would America have been better off as a Cummunist country? ( whisper edit*or socialist)

 

Communist or socialist?

Socialist 14 22.58%
 
Communist 9 14.52%
 
Just as it is, not free and terrible 26 41.94%
 
Other ( post below0 13 20.97%
 
Total:62
spurgeonryan said:
MDMAlliance said:
Viper1 said:

Ironically because of capitalism.


People seem to not get that China isn't really Communist.

Ironically, we have done well, because of Communism/Socialist countries.

Works both ways.

What exactly have we gained from Cuba, North Korea, Russia and Vietnam (though both are no longer Communist)?

 

If you mean China, then you need to go back to my post about China being Capitalist.  They have been more capitalist than communist for a long while now.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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spurgeonryan said:
MDMAlliance said:


Not really.  In what way can we say that our success is based on other countries being Communist/Socialist?  Cuba is probably the country closest to communism and we are sanctioning them.  

Most other "Communist" countries are totalitarian countries.  Maybe you mean we benefit from other countries being totalitarian? 

You really should try to validate your statements.

Not Cuba, but we are making a hell of a lot of Money off of china. Are we not? How many items do you buy a day that is "Made in China"? How much do American Businesses make off of China alone?

Validated?


China =/= Communist.  The part of China that makes all these things are the private sector, AKA the Capitalist side of China.  The sweatshops in China are a result of not Communism, but Capitalism.



Zero999 said:

America is not a country so the question is meaninless.


Are you telling me there are other contries than the US in the entire 2 continents of America? Mind Blown



disolitude said:

I don't think I would enjoy having an intelectual conversation with you... Sounds like you would yell at me a lot for no real reason.

There is how I feel walking into a political discussion pretty much anywhere on the internet. 

-------------------

OP: There are many variables here that need addressing.  

When would the US have become Communist? 1910? 1930?  1950?

How would it have happened?  By elections and slow move toward policies?  A violent uprising and possible civil war?

How would it have evolved and who would it mirror?  Communism comes in many forms, as most forms of government. 

How would the world react and what would it mean for other nations?  Would Europe be entriely communist as well? The Americas? Asia?

--------------------

I could go on, but the point is no one can definitively state an answer to this question as the whole world would be a dramatically different place. For me, I'd take what we have and work towards making it better.  



@OP - No.

addendum - I do think that there are things that need drastic improvement - better privacy protections, an increase of minimum wage by double what it currently is, an eradication of taxes on food, clothing or shelter, an end to giving money to foreign countries in return for free, full health coverage for ever US citizen, a complete overhaul of the Patent system, and so on.

I could go on for hours how things can be better and how we can enable every citizen to a path of great success. Yet, the question is would America be better off, the answer is a resounding NO.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


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spurgeonryan said:
BossPuma said:
Zero999 said:

America is not a country so the question is meaninless.


Are you telling me there are other contries than the US in the entire 2 continents of America? Mind Blown

I think most probably realize that I mean the U.S. Not the whole two continents of North and South America.

 

In the U.S, we often just refer to it as America. Even though it is not.

Yea, it was just a joke. I think its kinda apropriate for such a serious topic. :P



And added note - you're not going to see the means of success until you put your time in, that's how the system works. There's a saying that you don't really start earning money until you're 40. While I am ahead of that curve, its somewhat accurate. I've been at a plateau for about 6-7 years now, but finally broke through to a new level at a respectable payscale. Of course, I am aiming for higher, but it's progress in the right direction.

Unless you are lucky, you're going to make crap money in your 20s, barely scraping by with bills, etc, living paycheck to paycheck. If you keep learning and building your skills, you'll start making good money in your 30s. It all really depends on how much time you put into developing those skills. Remember all the nagging your parents did about your schoolwork? Turns out they were right - having the highest K/D in Black Ops ratio doesn't get you a good job, but actually building your knowledge and real world skillsets will.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


spurgeonryan said:
Viper1 said:

What exactly have we gained from Cuba, North Korea, Russia and Vietnam (though both are no longer Communist)?

 

If you mean China, then you need to go back to my post about China being Capitalist.  They have been more capitalist than communist for a long while now.

But Ameri...U.S...would go through the same process if we had become Communist at some point in history. I am sure we would be half and half as well by now.

do I want to be a communist or even socialist society? Hell no! But am I happy with how things are going right now? No. The greed and corruption are what annoy me the most.

China's transition to capitalism would never happen without the US's capitalistic socieity driving it.

So if the US were to have become communist logn ago, we'd not have that same trantiion to capitlism that China has been going through because no US like society would even exist to give us that recipricated capitlist drive.

 

Greed and corruption are a flaw of man, not a flaw of an economic system.  You can't change the clothes of the greedy from red white and blue to just red and expect those factors to go away.

You also have to realize that whether we like it nor not, greed is necessary motivator.  Greed to the point of excess and exploitation is a problem but greed as a means of motivation to become something greater than you are or achieve something greater than you have is THE reason the US and now China have been able to become what they have at all.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

I don't think most Americans have ever actually understood what either of those terms and concepts actually ARE. For one thing, there has literally never been a Marxist "Communism" based country, in the history of mankind. The countries that adopted so-called "Communism" were simply using that as a word for a movement that wound up, in general, being some kind of fascist state, an oligarchical system. Especially Russia.

As for "Socialism", I think if done correctly, in SOME measure, that is the best way to go, and the only way that actually makes sense as far as any kind of sustainable future is concerned. Capitalism, as Americans champion it, and the consumerist society that we have spread all over the world, certainly isn't sustainable, and never was. Problem is, people didn't bother thinking about the effects of all these things decades ago. I guess they just assumed that all the trash and problems and disparities from our way of doing things would just disappear or take care of itself somehow. Kind of the same way a child doesn't think about the future, when focusing only on stealing a cookie from the cupboard today.

I think some form of "Socialist Democracy", if done well, is the only reasonable way to go, going forward as a race.



spurgeonryan said:
BossPuma said:

Yea, it was just a joke. I think its kinda apropriate for such a serious topic. :P


ahh, wasnt sure who the joke was on. :-p

 

@ Others

 

It is not just about this president. All politicians are greedy. I do not know how to fix it. I do not entirely think we should be total communist. But I think a little of everything would help a bunch. Socialist programs are nice to a degree, but lets not go over board with them! Like we are.


Not all politicians do the things they do for money.  A lot do it for power.  Power you cannot get with money (at least not easily).