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Forums - Microsoft - Cloud Processing won't mean a thing for the Xbone

 

The Cloud will...

Significantly improve games 63 12.57%
 
Improve some games somewhat 65 12.97%
 
Might be used well here and there 101 20.16%
 
Merely PR BS 271 54.09%
 
Total:500
Machiavellian said:


I am sorry you will tell me you know something without the experience to back it up.  You can say anything without practical knowledge.  Why would anyone take your word over someone with experience.  There are plenty of armchair internet people with a little experience here or there acting like they know what they are talking about.  

In order to boil something down to the least amout of parameters you have to know what those parameters are.  When you find out what those parameters are please let me know.  


Well go on ahead to the gaming forum where all the cloud-computing experts are at.

All the parameters of importance have already been mentioned. I've actually read every entry in this thread.

Now WHY don't you reply to my post with the query? Why choose this one? Oh right, cause YOU have NOTHING to contribute except telling people they know nothing. Since we've now established that, KINDLY LEAVE.



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EDIT:


Nevermind.



Dr.Grass said:
Machiavellian said:
 

As to the Orleans being a Money grab, well I guess we will have to see.  From the statements MS has made it does not appear they are charging developers for this capability.  I do agree that this is a means for MS to get Azure out there more and to leaverage their platform but what I want to see if it can actually be used for real world game scenerios that could expand your local singleplayer game and its world to something we all have only dreamed about.  Hell, maybe Moleyneux vision for the frist Fable game can actually be realized.  As I remember, the Fable team is making some type of new RPG singleplayer/MMO game which we might see at E3 that could use some of this technolgy and see how viable it is.


For this type of game, cloud computing could have major advantages. I fully concede that. Huge, sprawling, alive worlds - yeah, totally. Much benefit to be had there.

I just don't see how one would cater for those without (good/reliable/any) access to the cloud. It is a logistics nightmare. Therefore, these types of benefits are destined to reside with MMO's (for the foreseaable future).

Can you deny these (simple) points?

If this is good for MMOs with millions of players, why would this not be good for regular Singleplayer games.  Games work today over the net just fine.  You have companies like Gaikai and Online doing game streaming.  Why exactly would cloud compute be any different.  People who play their MMOs expect those games to be up and running all the time and in most cases they do.  One of the key advantages of MS cloud tech is that its highly redundant.  Meaning that if one node goes down you have three to take up the slack with no down time.  The only thing that would make this not viable if your internet service is bad which I admit is the case for a lot of areas.  Even then, developers can get around high bandwidth and latency but prefetching their compute work based on the bandwidth and latency of the individual connection.  This type of work is done all the time with MMOs and multiplayer games.

What the developer would need to do is to think more ahead in design.  Since they know eactly what the player is doing at all times, sending multiple Jobs to the cloud to prepare a scene should not that that much work.

The negatives that people mention is that this would mean that games are tied to MS services and thus if you leave the network you basically leave your game.  This is true and a good concern but then again is it any different from PSN or Steam where each service give you benifits to entice you to stay on the service.



disolitude said:

Man Xbox One must be one big piece of sh%t.

For everything they announced about it so far, there is not a single aspect that posters at VGchartz don't have any issues with and can see as a positive.


In the other hand, Gaikai is great.



Dr.Grass said:
Machiavellian said:
 


I am sorry you will tell me you know something without the experience to back it up.  You can say anything without practical knowledge.  Why would anyone take your word over someone with experience.  There are plenty of armchair internet people with a little experience here or there acting like they know what they are talking about.  

In order to boil something down to the least amout of parameters you have to know what those parameters are.  When you find out what those parameters are please let me know.  


Well go on ahead to the gaming forum where all the cloud-computing experts are at.

All the parameters of importance have already been mentioned. I've actually read every entry in this thread.

Now WHY don't you reply to my post with the query? Why choose this one? Oh right, cause YOU have NOTHING to contribute except telling people they know nothing. Since we've now established that, KINDLY LEAVE.

Isnt Neograf good for getting developer insight.  I cruise around there to see developers response who might be taking a serious look at MS cloud compute tech.  I also will be waiting for MS build event where I expect to see actual practical demos showing how this work.  If at Build and E3 we do not see anything from MS then I will admit that MS isn't ready for the big claim they have made and thus this tech just might go the way of the Cell compute that Sony promised 7 years ago.

Ok so you are saying that the only parameters are the one that EG stated.  Without knowing the implemention of those parameters are you stating that EG understanding is complete.  

Well I answered your query.  I am actually working so I can only answer stuff in the order I find them.  After this post I will not be making another statement for hours as I have an integration between Salesforce.com and another product host within a web farm I need to get busy with.



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Machiavellian said:
Dr.Grass said:
Machiavellian said:
 

As to the Orleans being a Money grab, well I guess we will have to see.  From the statements MS has made it does not appear they are charging developers for this capability.  I do agree that this is a means for MS to get Azure out there more and to leaverage their platform but what I want to see if it can actually be used for real world game scenerios that could expand your local singleplayer game and its world to something we all have only dreamed about.  Hell, maybe Moleyneux vision for the frist Fable game can actually be realized.  As I remember, the Fable team is making some type of new RPG singleplayer/MMO game which we might see at E3 that could use some of this technolgy and see how viable it is.


For this type of game, cloud computing could have major advantages. I fully concede that. Huge, sprawling, alive worlds - yeah, totally. Much benefit to be had there.

I just don't see how one would cater for those without (good/reliable/any) access to the cloud. It is a logistics nightmare. Therefore, these types of benefits are destined to reside with MMO's (for the foreseaable future).

Can you deny these (simple) points?

If this is good for MMOs with millions of players, why would this not be good for regular Singleplayer games.  Games work today over the net just fine.  You have companies like Gaikai and Online doing game streaming.  Why exactly would cloud compute be any different.  People who play their MMOs expect those games to be up and running all the time and in most cases they do.  One of the key advantages of MS cloud tech is that its highly redundant.  Meaning that if one node goes down you have three to take up the slack with no down time.  The only thing that would make this not viable if your internet service is bad which I admit is the case for a lot of areas.  Even then, developers can get around high bandwidth and latency but prefetching their compute work based on the bandwidth and latency of the individual connection.  This type of work is done all the time with MMOs and multiplayer games.

What the developer would need to do is to think more ahead in design.  Since they know eactly what the player is doing at all times, sending multiple Jobs to the cloud to prepare a scene should not that that much work.

The negatives that people mention is that this would mean that games are tied to MS services and thus if you leave the network you basically leave your game.  This is true and a good concern but then again is it any different from PSN or Steam where each service give you benifits to entice you to stay on the service.

If you can't figure that out all by yourself then I think I've been wasting my time with you.

I'm dead serious.



Machiavellian said:

Isnt Neograf good for getting developer insight.  I cruise around there to see developers response who might be taking a serious look at MS cloud compute tech.  I also will be waiting for MS build event where I expect to see actual practical demos showing how this work.  If at Build and E3 we do not see anything from MS then I will admit that MS isn't ready for the big claim they have made and thus this tech just might go the way of the Cell compute that Sony promised 7 years ago.

Ok so you are saying that the only parameters are the one that EG stated.  Without knowing the implemention of those parameters are you stating that EG understanding is complete.  

Well I answered your query.  I am actually working so I can only answer stuff in the order I find them.  After this post I will not be making another statement for hours as I have an integration between Salesforce.com and another product host within a web farm I need to get busy with.

LET'S JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT THEN.



pr3st00 said:
disolitude said:

Man Xbox One must be one big piece of sh%t.

For everything they announced about it so far, there is not a single aspect that posters at VGchartz don't have any issues with and can see as a positive.


In the other hand, Gaikai is great.

I don't think anyone said Gaikai was great(?). There are so many straw-man arguments happening it's just ridiculous. People lost faith in this idea after Onlive evaporated into nothingness.

Also, there's quite a big difference between a streaming service and cloud computing, so no-one's comparing the two.

The main reason for the excitement regarding Gaikai is the sheer volume of classic games that will be available. I think you have to be a complete non-gamer to NOT get excited by that.

Now if you take the above stance as "Sony fanboy" then I don't know what to say.



Dr.Grass said:
Machiavellian said:

If this is good for MMOs with millions of players, why would this not be good for regular Singleplayer games.  Games work today over the net just fine.  You have companies like Gaikai and Online doing game streaming.  Why exactly would cloud compute be any different.  People who play their MMOs expect those games to be up and running all the time and in most cases they do.  One of the key advantages of MS cloud tech is that its highly redundant.  Meaning that if one node goes down you have three to take up the slack with no down time.  The only thing that would make this not viable if your internet service is bad which I admit is the case for a lot of areas.  Even then, developers can get around high bandwidth and latency but prefetching their compute work based on the bandwidth and latency of the individual connection.  This type of work is done all the time with MMOs and multiplayer games.

What the developer would need to do is to think more ahead in design.  Since they know eactly what the player is doing at all times, sending multiple Jobs to the cloud to prepare a scene should not that that much work.

The negatives that people mention is that this would mean that games are tied to MS services and thus if you leave the network you basically leave your game.  This is true and a good concern but then again is it any different from PSN or Steam where each service give you benifits to entice you to stay on the service.

If you can't figure that out all by yourself then I think I've been wasting my time with you.

I'm dead serious.


Diablo 3 behaves very much like an MMO, but it is also played by many people as a single player experience. I dont see why this wouldn't be good for single player. While MMO's are great I dont like playing with others, so although Diablo 3 is basically built as an MMO, its also built around being a single player game. I am actually confused as why something that is good for MMO's can't also be good for single players. I play with all my devices connected to the internet anyways, if I can get a more realistic/immersive world with it why not do that?



Diablo 3 is not a good advertisement for enhancements by cloud computing. It was a big downside to the single player gamer. There is a crack out now that let's you play the game off-line.
Same with Sim city. Let me save, burn the city down, restore. And instead of bigger cities, you get a fraction of the size to play with compared to previous games.

I think it's a pipe dream. I still have regular connection hick ups and only a choice between bandwidth capped cable or max 5 mbps phone line. And no plans whatsoever to bring fibre here. Maybe in 10 years things will be better, and hardware will be a lot cheaper to actually have a single player mmo running for a million players on day 1 without problems.

Btw Fable pipe dreams can easily be done locally, all you need is a hdd. Updating world stuff for the time you have been gone is nothing new either. The scope can be much bigger with cloud computing, yet the bigger the changes, the bigger the download size as well. Personally I would prefer to find my world back the way I left it when I pressed save, but that's just me. (Keep it synched with the character's time frame)

Let's continue this discussion after E3 with hopefully some actual examples.