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Forums - Sony - Sony Employees Respond to 'PS4 No DRM' Campaign

Zizzla_Rachet said:
RenCutypoison said:
sales2099 said:
Just curious.......PC gaming uses DRM standard. I mean, I can't give my copy of Starcraft to a friend because the game is tied to my computer.

PC gaming is the master race apparently......

So what's with the double standard?


Well, first of all, there is more piracy on PC.

Then, well, most pcs are connected to the internet right now, and people don't see reason to have a pc without internet, so always on is less of a hassle.

And finally, the steam sales.

Oh, and pc gamers are rich.


So that some how makes it ok to think it's going to cuase damge on Xbox One?


It will probably cause damages to the whole industry, I think I already quoted this but :

"If you threat all your customers as thiefs, good luck keeping your customers"



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sales2099 said:
Just curious.......PC gaming uses DRM standard. I mean, I can't give my copy of Starcraft to a friend because the game is tied to my computer.

PC gaming is the master race apparently......

So what's with the double standard?

Huh? SC2 is tied to your bnet account not computer, you can sell your bnet account I guess. Get them to change the password. It's against ToS but not hard.



Soleron said:
sales2099 said:
Just curious.......PC gaming uses DRM standard. I mean, I can't give my copy of Starcraft to a friend because the game is tied to my computer.

PC gaming is the master race apparently......

So what's with the double standard?

Huh? SC2 is tied to your bnet account not computer, you can sell your bnet account I guess. Get them to change the password. It's against ToS but not hard.

I stand corrected on the technicals, but my point stands that my game is tied to me.

PC gamers are the master race. So why is it bad for Xbox?



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

happydolphin said:
Hynad said:
Machiavellian said:

You know what the crazy part is, that people seem to ignore the fact that Sony implemented project 10 dollar, they the ones that actually patented DRM on their console while MS has done neither but some how Sony gets  pass.  At this time, Sony either has DRM or they do not.  At this stage they are waiting to release that Info and they will let the Xbone take all the heat before they state how they do it.  They will make it seem like its fair but it will be the same.

People keep forgetting that Sony sells a lot of content that they want to protect.  From movies to music, TV shows and games.  Sony was the company to put a root kit on peoples PC if no one remember that whole fiasco.  Sony is not this altriistic company but instead a coporation just like MS.  I would highly be surprised if Sony does not have DRM on their console and it will be simular to what MS is doing.  The difference will be that MS will have everyone install the game on their console while I believe Sony is not going this route.

Are you kidding? MS didn't implement this? 

You have to pay a yearly fee to have access to online play since day one, on the 360... -__-

That's not drm though bro.

Nope. It isn't. But it didn't prevent them from banning people from using Live. Making pirating the console a much less tempting endeaver, won't you agree?

Ultimately, it serves pretty much the same purpose.



ironmanDX said:
UnitSmiley said:
I actually made a twitter account yesterday just to do my part. It's pretty cool to see them respond. Even if this has no effect, I think it's important that consumers make their voice heard.

Lol at MS fans hoping Sony goes through with DRM.



I'm still a firm believer that it will change the console gaming market for the better like it has with PC. Not seeing why you're laughing at our hope? All the sluaghter of late, we need the hope. Hope is our friend.

 

Hope.


Better in what way?



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RenCutypoison said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
RenCutypoison said:
sales2099 said:
Just curious.......PC gaming uses DRM standard. I mean, I can't give my copy of Starcraft to a friend because the game is tied to my computer.

PC gaming is the master race apparently......

So what's with the double standard?


Well, first of all, there is more piracy on PC.

Then, well, most pcs are connected to the internet right now, and people don't see reason to have a pc without internet, so always on is less of a hassle.

And finally, the steam sales.

Oh, and pc gamers are rich.


So that some how makes it ok to think it's going to cuase damge on Xbox One?


It will probably cause damages to the whole industry, I think I already quoted this but :

"If you threat all your customers as thiefs, good luck keeping your customers"

LOL...I don't know what to say..PC publishers treat gamers like thieves..?



 



Zizzla_Rachet said:
RenCutypoison said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:


So that some how makes it ok to think it's going to cuase damge on Xbox One?


It will probably cause damages to the whole industry, I think I already quoted this but :

"If you threat all your customers as thiefs, good luck keeping your customers"

LOL...I don't know what to say..PC publishers treat gamers like thieves..?


Sometimes. Abusive DRMs are a threat. You ever played a Ubisoft game on pc ?



Hynad said:

Nope. It isn't. But it didn't prevent them from banning people from using Live. Making pirating the console a much less tempting endeaver, won't you agree?

Ultimately, it serves pretty much the same purpose.

Can't say I completely agree but I see where you're coming from. It gives the company a certain form of control over our purchase in a sense and there you're correct, but it isn't technically DRM, which has a much greater bredth than an online subscription. I will admit it would be a step towards that though, but not a necessary one.



RenCutypoison said:
Shinobi-san said:
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Muffin31190 said:
o_O.Q said:
do i need to get my eyes checked or am i actually seeing xbox fans in here opposing this?


It is what happens when u blindly follow, all i can say is that a lot of people cant handle being an Individual so it leads them to what we see here.


Next gen is bringing next generation levels of fanboyism!!

To be fair, Xbox fans on other sites havnt been so nice to MS of late...its only a handfull of Vgchartz users that are in every thread talking against Sony praising MS.

I actually cant comprehend how people are defending MS (or Sony if they go along with this). These issues are greater than your loyality to a certain brand.


Personally, I look at everything from a business standpoint.  I neither praise or condemn because there are a lot to the issue besides what gamers want.  In a perfect world gamers would be able to get all their games free or for pennies.  Gamers talk about how the publisher are greedy but they do not recognize their own greed.

Used games used to be a very niche thing that turned into a billion dollar industry.  When I go to Gamestop, they push you to buy the used game over the new.  I joined the power up club and I get used game points.  On my birthday, I received a 20% off a any used game instead of new.  It use to be that only Gamestop sold used games but now you can purchase them in grocery stores.  While the used game market is great for consumers and retailers who see those games, it kills developers and publishers who spent millions to make that game.

People point to steam saying that well we can get games cheaper thats why we accept the fact we cannot sell our games but then again isn't that the reason Steam can go that route.  Usually those good deals are actual deals which last a very limited time.  Publishers feel they can still sell games that no longer sell for cheap and still get paid and those games cannot be traded or sold to someone else.

People have used other media like DVDs, CDs and books.  DVDs cannot really be used because the creators make the most of their money at the box office so DVD subsidize their profits.  CDs have had some digital growth problems until Itunes came along.  Books on the other hand really never have this problem as most people probably purchase new and the cost to create the material is no where close to video games.  Actually if you look at it, Video Games are more dependant on retail sells than the other media.  DVDs has the box office.  CDs creators have their concerts where they make their money.  Books more on retail as well but the cost is much lower.

So to sum this all up, there needs to be a balance to the 2nd hand sell now that it has compromised the creators ability to make a profit.  If everybody gets what they want besides the creators, well the system cannot continue.  I am not saying MS  way is right or wrong, its just a way where we might see many different scenerios that come into play to solve this problem.


I agree, but like you said there needs to be a balance.

Just about every one of the latest MS policies is designed to charge the customer more. Costs have already gone up this gen...Day1 DLC, Season Pass & Online Pass, map packs, expansion packs that are so minute on additions that you can hardly justify calling them expansion packs.

We really need to ask ourselves why are costs skyrocketing like this? Why is $60 or $70 not enough to profit from when a game sells over 1 - 2 million?

I mean look at Square Enix...their games sold reasonable well Hitman, Tomb Raider, cant remember the other one....but then they still didnt make a profit? And when you look at the actual game they got mediocre to high reviews. Why on earth did these games cost so much? Whose the cause of this?

There are bigger issues here. It seems as if the publishers and manufacturers are passing on the buck here. They need to look at their own processes and ask themselves why do our games costs so much to develop and distrubute?

Theres two options here: either downscale your development and reduce costs, this does NOT mean a lower quality title. Independent small developers and indie developers are proving that good quality games can be made with smaller bugdets. Hell even if the big guys just cut costs a little bit there budgets will still far exceed those of smaller developers.

The other option would be to increase the initial cost of the game. The problem here is that consumers probably won't buy games if the initial cost is too high. So really the only option is the first.

But now we find ourselves in a situation where the main issue isnt been addressed, instead publishers and manufactures are aiming at profiting off markets they were never ever meant to profit from. Creating DRM policies that are so skewed and stringent that it adversely impacts the consumer experience in multiple ways. This is ridiculous. This is why people are upset.

People will speak with their wallets. And yeah at the end of the day MS is running a business but that doesnt mean you intentionally screw over your consumers just to make more money. So many other companies in mulitple other industries have decent relations with their consumers and still profit. So i dont even find this "Well they a business they just need to make money" argument even remotely valid.

Not to mention, some publishers and at times manufacturers are just outright greedy with no explanation whatsover.


The graphics war, and a gen on wich multiplatformwas a requirement (xbox, steam and playstation generated as much revenues). So what do they do then ?

I remember people saying that FFXIII graphics were ridiculous on par with the latest uncharted. This is why we keep raising cost.

You say indies and small devs make good games with low budget, but how much do fail ? 90% of indies just bankrupt.  And 90% of indie games are crap.

Even if you take only the exception, world of goo generated 8 million dollars, that's not what will help Square or Ubi.

So they try these DRMs, cause it's easier to say that it's because of the pirates and not because there are more good devs and the market is more fragmented.

When you look at the data from 5 years ago, each and every goog games were either first party either published by the 5 biggest third party publishers.

Now, when you go to metacritics, what are the top score games ?

They are not greedy without reason. The market is hard to dominate more than ever, they all have huge loss. Manufacturers and publishers.

You dont need crazy graphics to sell your game. Call of Duty sells just fine and its graphics has become average over the generation. Sure their was an initial investement with COD4: MW but since then everything has just been slightly upgraded, polished and reused. Uncharted levels of graphics is really not needed. I would even argue that certain games that went for graphical fidelity like Killzone 2. FF13 was to the detriment of the franchise in both sales and quality.

Saying 90% of indie devs are bankrupt isnt saying much when most of them start out at that point. Also i wasnt saying the big guys need to downscale that much but just keep control over costs. Again i use Tomb Raider and Hitman as examples...why were those games big budget titles? I can guarentee you that The Witcher 2 cost less to make and it has better graphics and is a better game. Publishers need to keep their costs inline with realistic sales expectations. If someone was thinking Tomb Raider was gonna sell more than what it did then someone needs to be fired.

And again im not saying they are just greedy and want more money (some are though!) but they are not addressing the real issues. They can keep charging consumers making console gaming more expensive, less people will buy the games, costs will still skyrocket and the returns wont be good enough even with decent sales.

Some developers are doing so well right now because of this its hilarious when the big companies are getting it soooo wrong.



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happydolphin said:
Good for them, really. I'm just not sure how much of a difference this makes for the gamers side of the bargain, I'm betting this is more for gamers to buy into them.


Are people actually thinking this is a Sony PR stunt?

You do realise that these guys are replying in their personal capacity as a result of being directly tagged in thousands of tweets?

So im really struglling to see how this is being done for gamers to buy into Sony? Or did i just not read your post correctly?



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