I have heard this said a million times, and I myself believe it, given supply and manufacturing constraints, but does anyone have links or information regarding hardware manufacturing process?

For instance, could nextbox switch to an intel at this late stage of the game?

depends on the change i believe. A gpu or cpu change would need far more time than using a different disc drive, hard drive or ram. I think most consoles use various models of disk drives and hard drive.

If by console, you mean Nintendo as a whole then no, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks

Sure they could switch to Intel as long as you don't mind updating all the dev tools spending millions updating the support systems (Mobo (at least the socket as Intel CPUs use very different pin configurations and voltages etc and console CPUs are soldered straight into the board), memory interface, IO systems etc) and breaking all the games currently in development (if the changes are small enough recompiling with new compilers should fix most issues from a CPU change) and making all the low level optimisations the developers have done invalid. Also as all 3 console this time round use some form of MCM or APU changing the CPU would of course mean changing the GPU as well.

Oh and paying the fee for breaking whatever contracts they have in place. And paying through the nose for short notice and have to use off the shelf parts with 0 customisation or majorly delay the console. Console hardware is planned long in advance with years of work carefully selecting and customising hardware to insure a balanced set of hardware that all works together optimally (performance and stability) within a target TDP and thermal design. And leaving final silicone and system design to the last minute with no time to properly test leads to things like the Red Ring disaster of the X360.

wow. that is a complete answer. you sir are an asset to humanity.

Impossible to switch.

Developers may use intricate instructions not on different CPUs, may push a CPU to it's limits in the odd scene, or may even rely on the CPU being slow in another in the name of timing etc.

Same goes for GPU/RAM.


No chance, not possible, never going to happen, EVER.

He's just stating the obvious.

Not sure why the OP didn't think about it for a second before asking, it's nothing but logic.

No. He gave a professional answer.

Keep in mind I'm no expert (just an interested nerd that knows barely enough to get myself into trouble lol) but most of it is pretty common sense stuff. Things like compilers are tools for translating code into machine code for the processor, for PC most aplications will use 3 compiler profiles one for legacy CPUs that take advantage of just the basic core features of the x86 ISA, one for newer Intel CPUs and one for AMD CPUs each branch will take advantage of the specific extentions that each vender makes to their CPUs to ensure optimal performance. For consoles specialised compilers are provided as part of the dev kit which are designed for the specifc CPU. So obviously if you change the CPU to another vendor code you will need new compilers. Programers especially on consoles will also take steps to optimise their code and data structures to suit the different CPUs which of course will be broken when moving to another CPU (tho most multiplatform developers would likely keep code as agnostic as possible to imporve portability) and also a different CPU would have different performance which would throw developers performacne targets out. 

As both PS4 and Durango (from leaks and rumor) use AMD designed APUs which have tight intergration of the CPU and GPU on one chip. Changing the CPU would not be as simple as swapping it out they would ether need to design a new APU/MCM to house the CPU and GPU (which would take time and a lot of money) or have them seperate which would mean designing a whole new Mobo and memory to house them. Changing the CPU would also mean changes in power and heat requirements which could mean different powersupply and cooling etc. None of that stuff could be done overnight which is why development of a new console usualls starts as soon as the last one shipped. And why MS has been staffing up on hardware engineers since early 2011. And if you read the Iwata asks about the Wii U http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/console/0/1 over 2,000 thermal tests to design the cooling system and case for the Wii U and that is just one of many tasks involved in designing hardware. 

Then you have the fabrication of the CPUs, chip fabrication is a complicated business and different fabs have different technologies and CPU design involves hundreds of patents and licensing agreements. Fabs will often take months to prep for production of a new chip, production of Durangos processor has likely already started if it's launching this year for example and there were leaks dating back to late last year that final silicone had began production http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/02/xbox-next720-silicon-production-day-arrives/ (so if production of an already long planned chip could cause a 6 month delay imagine how long it would take to start production of a whole new one). So it's not like MS could just suddenly order a couple million CPUs from a different vendor without massive delays. 

Then there are the contracts designing the chip for Durango is likely worth billions over the course of the consoles life. I can't imagine that they don't have some kind of clause to protect them financially if MS was to pull out at the last minute. Nvidia made over $500 million from just royalties on the RSX in the PS3 by 2011 http://arstechnica.com/business/2011/01/intelnvidia-bombshell-look-for-nvidia-gpu-on-intel-processor-die/ imagine what is involved with AMD designing a full APU. 

Well, they *could* switch to intel, of course, but this would end in NextBox being just a pc :)

There are certain parts that can be changed (clock-rates, amount of ram sometimes) but architectural changes are really hard to do.

The problem is that you don't only build hardware but you also have contracts with suppliers and especially you have already build a lot of software for a given hardware. All this work would have to be done again and you would have to pay a lot of money for breaking contracts, leave aside the hate from devs who already worked with dev-kits.

Consoles are developed in several years, there is no "fast change" of crucial things.

Why do you ask?