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Forums - General - 0.9999.... = 1.0

 

Are you convinced?

Yes 34 58.62%
 
No 20 34.48%
 
not sure 1 1.72%
 
Total:55
Mnementh said:
walsufnir said:
Another brainfuck are real numbers in general:
between 0 and 0.1 are infinite numbers which is almost the same matter as with 0.9 periodic is 1.

Yeah, the mindfuck is even bigger. We know rational numbers (can be expressed as quotient of two integers) and real numbers (well rational number + even more). Between each two unequal rational numbers we have an infinite number of rational and real numbers, but the infinity of the real numbers is bigger. Our mind is not fit to understand infinity, but with mathematics we have a cool tool to tame these things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinality#Infinite_sets

I didn't want to go any further but of course you are right but it's not new to me - even though my oral exam in mathematics (I studied CS) was very good but I still keep these little things in my head and they still somehow confuse me a little bit, even nowadays. It doesn't really bother me but perhaps our way to describe numbers or better representations of magnitudes or relations is not the best. It's hard to describe what I mean but perhaps we need another genius on earth who can take the way we see math to a new level of understanding.



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ITT: People trying to change extremely well understood and proven mathematics with experience-based arguments.



I know next to nothing about maths, but it makes sense.

1/3= 0.333...
3/3 = 1

So 0.333... x 3 = 0.999... = 1



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

Troll_Whisperer said:
I know next to nothing about maths, but it makes sense.

1/3= 0.333...
3/3 = 1

So 0.333... x 3 = 0.999... = 1

I'm going to be devil's advocate here.

start with A and B such that A = B

A = B                                  First statement
A^2 = AB                           Multiply both sides by A
A^2-B^2=AB-B^2            Subtract B^2 from both sides
(A+B)(A-B)=B(A-B)          Factor both sides
A+B=B                               Divide both sides by (A-B)
2B=B                                  Since A=B we can replace A with B
2=1                                     Divide both sides by B

So with some apparently valid steps we have deduced 2=1. The contradiction is in the fifth line, where something is done that seems reasonable but is actually against the rules.

So when you write what you write "So 0.333... x 3 = 0.999... = 1", there may be something wrong you don't even realise if you aren't aware of all the relevant rules. In this case you're not wrong, but what you wrote didn't show that. This is why formal proofs are used in maths.



Infinite is a theoretical value and is therefore invalid. For example if you added 3 to infinite, you'd still get infinite. If you added 1000 to infinite, then you would still get infinite. If X = Infinite, you could say X + 3 = X + 1000, remove the X and you get 3 = 1000.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Soleron said:

ITT: People trying to change extremely well understood and proven mathematics with experience-based arguments.

Try making a thread about liquid water at -15 ºC, or water boiling at 40 ºC. Their heads will explode :P



Infinite is a theoretical value and is therefore invalid. For example if you added 3 to infinite, you'd still get infinite. If you added 1000 to infinite, then you would still get infinite. If X = Infinite, you could say X + 3 = X + 1000, remove the X and you get 3 = 1000.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Infinite is a theoretical value and is therefore invalid. For example if you added 3 to infinite, you'd still get infinite. If you added 1000 to infinite, then you would still get infinite. If X = Infinite, you could say X + 3 = X + 1000, remove the X and you get 3 = 1000.

Yeah no you can't treat infinity like that.



Player2 said:
Soleron said:

ITT: People trying to change extremely well understood and proven mathematics with experience-based arguments.

Try making a thread about liquid water at -15 ºC, or water boiling at 40 ºC. Their heads will explode :P

That's one of my favourite diagrams from science.


But my absolute favourite is:

It's the reason why we're all here.



Soleron said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
I know next to nothing about maths, but it makes sense.

1/3= 0.333...
3/3 = 1

So 0.333... x 3 = 0.999... = 1

I'm going to be devil's advocate here.

start with A and B such that A = B

A = B                                  First statement
A^2 = AB                           Multiply both sides by A
A^2-B^2=AB-B^2            Subtract B^2 from both sides
(A+B)(A-B)=B(A-B)          Factor both sides
A+B=B                               Divide both sides by (A-B)
2B=B                                  Since A=B we can replace A with B
2=1                                     Divide both sides by B

So with some apparently valid steps we have deduced 2=1. The contradiction is in the fifth line, where something is done that seems reasonable but is actually against the rules.

So when you write what you write "So 0.333... x 3 = 0.999... = 1", there may be something wrong you don't even realise if you aren't aware of all the relevant rules. In this case you're not wrong, but what you wrote didn't show that. This is why formal proofs are used in maths.

Oh yeah? Well, you fight like a cow!



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.