Look. I'm not saying that ps4 won't be successful or even "win" after all is said and done. I'm just suggesting that 400+ price tag might lead to yet another slow start out of the gate.

I think people even viewed the Wii u as expensive at only" 350

Wii U is considered expensive fro two reasons. First, it's a Nintendo console. Nintendo never launched a console over 250 before. Second, it's not much more capable of the same things 360/ps3 are and those are less than 250 dollars.

Xbox will win. Xbox is going to take America by storm. Wii U will lose most likely but it and PS4 will be close.

You can't really compare the situation with the PS2 and GameCube during the 6th generation because a) the PS2 was a sales phenomenon, b) the PS2 was released a year earlier and c) the PS2's sales were boosted somewhat because some people bought it as a budget DVD player.

And of course the prices of this gen's consoles will matter, we're right in the middle of the worst worldwide recession seen in donkeys years.

Any retail price over $400 is going to cause problems for the PS4 and 720, and given the specs for each in addition to the likes of Kinect and camera bar etc bundled with each console I can't personally see either one being sold for $399.99.

And if that wasn't enough for the 720 you've also got rumours of this always online and no used games business and the possibility of some people being burned by Microsoft consoles after poor reliability this gen. I know people that have bought 3 of the things.

I've also got a feeling that Nintendo have another couple of Bayonetta 2 style announcements up their sleeves this year. Games sell consoles at the end of the day and at launch of the PS4 and 720 the Wii U is going to have a much richer library of games to choose from given its year head start.

In this thread, the general public (or just Zero) telling a Developer what developers can and can't do with a console.

Yet, you can compare the sales of software on Wii to PS3 under the same conditions?, if that's not hypocricy i don't know what is.

Sorry to interfere here but that's simply not true . Millions and millions of people spend $400 to $600 dollars on a new smartphone every year, and these device don't last nearly as long as a PS4 and 720. The same goes for many other media device like tablets, and they usually only offer very limited improvements over the previous models. If any the fact that this gen has gone on much longer than ever before will cause the PS4 and 720 to sell faster then other generations, people have been waiting for them longer and have seen that a $400 device can last them up to 7-8 years. And with all the other added media features you are getting more bang for the buck then ever before.

You have a feeling?, so that's vindication now?, As it stands, the launch of nintendos big sellers isn't till October or beyond, by which time the new consoles releases will be on the doorstep - There's a pittiful number of games for the system right now, where as the PS4 and potentially the 720 too, have a whole host of major titles they will be launching with, so what Nintendo have done is basically release a console a year early and sit on their hands doing nothing for over a year, effectively burning the head start they had, so that 'much richer library' you talk about is actually just your imagination playing tricks on you.

Not my imagination at all. By the time the PS4 and 720 are released we should have seen the releases of Nintendo Land, NSMB U, ZombiU, Lego City Undercover, Scribblenauts Unlimited, Monster Hunter 3G Ultimate, Wii Fit, Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, Wind Waker HD, 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8...plus a shedload of titles from indie developers available from the eShop and the same high profile cross generation 3rd party multiplatform titles that the PS4 and 720 will be getting such as Assassin's Creed IV and Watch Dogs.

What's most important though is that the Wii U could be the go-to place for indie developers thanks to Nintendo giving tens of thousands of pounds worth of software and middleware free with each dev kit, including Greenhill's MULTI IDE, Autodesk middleware, Havok middleware and a licence for Unity 4.

Nobody has ever done that before, and both Sony and Microsoft really need to step up their game to attract indie developers. Sony have made a bit of an effort by agreeing with Unity to bring Unity tools and support to the PS4 but developers still need to fork out for the licence.

Nintendo are also rumoured to be giving developers a similar cut that Steam sales give them, 70/30 in favour of the developer.

Nobody has ever done that before?, uh.. hate to break it to you but back when i first started working as a developer, the Katana devkit we had was given to use for free from Sega, Sony gave away Yaroze to hundreds of people who initially bought it by never actually cashing the cheques for the hardware, as well as giving hundreds of units to universities - Sony have repeated this with the Orbis development kits by basically providing the SDK and development hardware to smaller development teams and indie developers for free to create software on, with includes extensive software and development libraries, Microsoft also provides an extensive software library to development teams free of charge.

Also, Nintendo do provide these tools, but selective to the project, they don't just say "heres a bunch of software and licenses you might not even use".

Rose tinted glasses?, Yup.