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Forums - General - What is the answer to radical Islam? This is NOT an anti Islam thread

richardhutnik on 21 April 2013
spurgeonryan said:
It seems to me ( I am not trying to be crazy or incensitive) that there is no way that all terror attacks can be linked to radical islam. It seems to me that this is just some Government ploy to keep us invested in that area of the world. Before 9/11 and a few other random attacks, we had terrorist attacks from Americans and other groups as well. Now it is mostly from radical Islam? What changed?
I just think that this is all too much. Something must be going on. Two random kids just happened to be part of an Islamic Religious group? Maybe I am wrong and Radical islamic groups just like to constantly attack America and other areas of the world that are Westernized. But it is a little hard to believe. Lot's of things are beyond belief these days though. Like America being one of the most powerful countries in the world on the verge of bankruptcy and being owned mostly by other countries.

So who knows.

Theocratic militant Islam is the ideology of revolution around the world, in the 21st century.  It is the banner raised most around the world when doing a revolt against systems seen as corrupt.  The 20th century had Communism.  The 21st century has this extreme form of Islam.



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Lostplanet22 on 22 April 2013

It is foolish to presume that you can do something about Radicial Islam. Radical Islam has become something that is cool in Western Eu countries. Radical imam's are recruiting to fight in name of Allah and cause terror in name of Allah...

It is not an secret, they dare to say stuff as 'if you don't want your daughter gets raped convert her to islam and she will be safe' 'if not then it means you not love your daughter'.. how can you fight this kind of thinking? Education?

And it is everywhere, I work in Brussels, and one of the things I do is helping with the Tibetan organisation to let people have a blue book (see avatar) to show your respect for tibet, and help with dialogues between Tibetan/chinese officials etc.. We got word that three Tibetan youth have converted to Islam, because some recruiters said they will attack China when Europe and USA is conquered..and tibet will be free... Worst news is that one is missing and that he probably is one of the hundreds of Belgians fighting in Syria....

We are having television stations every week in Brussels talking about how radical islam is destroying a city and a nation...

Including ones from USA:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk



 

Dark_Lord_2008 on 22 April 2013
Slimebeast said:
the2real4mafol said:
Slimebeast said:

Restrict immigration from islamic countries to the West. Do not let muslims build mosques with tall minarets or call to prayer in Europe, and don't give them special rights that threaten the democratic prinicples of the West.

Why should they be limited just because they are muslim? Surely that is just fascism. I though freedom of movement was a human right. and also most muslims are good hard working people, why should they be stopped. and why should they be banned from building mosques? It's their culture and religion. Surely some cultural diversity is a good thing. Ignorance of our differences is what leads to hatred.

And finally, what makes you think Muslims are anti-democratic. They are very people that are fighting for democracy. Ever heard of the Arab spring? People in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Qatar and Syria and some other countries are fighting for democracy. In think, there is still a civil war going on in Syria, just for democracy and because people had enough of the despot Al Assad. Democracy is not exclusive to the west anymore, i don't think it ever was.  

Fascism? That's ridiculous.

FOY freedom of movement into any country in the world is not a human right.

Yes, most muslims are good people, but among the whole group of people immigrating from some muslim countries there are obviously a number of trouble makers that cause a lot of problems in our societies. So if immigration from muslim countries on average brings problems to Europe (not so much USA because unlike European countries USA a nation designed for immigration and is much much better at handling its implications with stronger law enforcemet etc etc), then a reasonable solution to address that problem is to restrict immigration.

I am for freedom of religion and I didn't say I am for a ban against building mosques (but I would restrict the number of mosques when necessary), I said I am against tall minarets (because of the symbolical value they have in the sky-line in transforming our culture) and against mosques being allowed auditory call-to-prayer announcements that can be heard over the neighborhoods.

Between muslims there are different interpretations of the Quran and how to design a muslim society, and a significant part of muslims belong to a group that is harder to integrate with Western principles.

The Arab sping so far has replaced traditional dictators with a questionable form of theocracy rather than democratic societies in the Western sense.

Religious fundamentalists do not  believe in democracy. Most of the Muslim Arab nations are militant or religious dictatorships. Muslim fundamentalists want to try and convert Westerners to Islam. The West must restrict and closely monitor Muslims and prevent terrorism. Educate Muslims that democracy is better than the tyranny of a dictatorship that is pushed by religious fundamentalism. 



the2real4mafol on 22 April 2013
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Slimebeast said:
the2real4mafol said:
Slimebeast said:

Restrict immigration from islamic countries to the West. Do not let muslims build mosques with tall minarets or call to prayer in Europe, and don't give them special rights that threaten the democratic prinicples of the West.

Why should they be limited just because they are muslim? Surely that is just fascism. I though freedom of movement was a human right. and also most muslims are good hard working people, why should they be stopped. and why should they be banned from building mosques? It's their culture and religion. Surely some cultural diversity is a good thing. Ignorance of our differences is what leads to hatred.

And finally, what makes you think Muslims are anti-democratic. They are very people that are fighting for democracy. Ever heard of the Arab spring? People in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Qatar and Syria and some other countries are fighting for democracy. In think, there is still a civil war going on in Syria, just for democracy and because people had enough of the despot Al Assad. Democracy is not exclusive to the west anymore, i don't think it ever was.  

Fascism? That's ridiculous.

FOY freedom of movement into any country in the world is not a human right.

Yes, most muslims are good people, but among the whole group of people immigrating from some muslim countries there are obviously a number of trouble makers that cause a lot of problems in our societies. So if immigration from muslim countries on average brings problems to Europe (not so much USA because unlike European countries USA a nation designed for immigration and is much much better at handling its implications with stronger law enforcemet etc etc), then a reasonable solution to address that problem is to restrict immigration.

I am for freedom of religion and I didn't say I am for a ban against building mosques (but I would restrict the number of mosques when necessary), I said I am against tall minarets (because of the symbolical value they have in the sky-line in transforming our culture) and against mosques being allowed auditory call-to-prayer announcements that can be heard over the neighborhoods.

Between muslims there are different interpretations of the Quran and how to design a muslim society, and a significant part of muslims belong to a group that is harder to integrate with Western principles.

The Arab sping so far has replaced traditional dictators with a questionable form of theocracy rather than democratic societies in the Western sense.

Religious fundamentalists do not  believe in democracy. Most of the Muslim Arab nations are militant or religious dictatorships. Muslim fundamentalists want to try and convert Westerners to Islam. The West must restrict and closely monitor Muslims and prevent terrorism. Educate Muslims that democracy is better than the tyranny of a dictatorship that is pushed by religious fundamentalism. 

Well the people dying for a democratic future in Syria can't be fundamentalists then. Al Assad is a terrorist. But it is still wrong to persume all muslims are terrorists or dictators. Dicators and Terrorists are everywhere, you can look at Africa, Asia and South America for that. It is wrong to single out Muslims on this issue. The problem is whatever is fueling the radicalisation of these people. When society breaks down, people look for a radical solution.  



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the2real4mafol on 22 April 2013
Slimebeast said:
the2real4mafol said:

Why should they be limited just because they are muslim? Surely that is just fascism. I though freedom of movement was a human right. and also most muslims are good hard working people, why should they be stopped. and why should they be banned from building mosques? It's their culture and religion. Surely some cultural diversity is a good thing. Ignorance of our differences is what leads to hatred.

And finally, what makes you think Muslims are anti-democratic. They are very people that are fighting for democracy. Ever heard of the Arab spring? People in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Qatar and Syria and some other countries are fighting for democracy. In think, there is still a civil war going on in Syria, just for democracy and because people had enough of the despot Al Assad. Democracy is not exclusive to the west anymore, i don't think it ever was.  

Fascism? That's ridiculous.

FOY freedom of movement into any country in the world is not a human right.

Yes, most muslims are good people, but among the whole group of people immigrating from some muslim countries there are obviously a number of trouble makers that cause a lot of problems in our societies. So if immigration from muslim countries on average brings problems to Europe (not so much USA because unlike European countries USA a nation designed for immigration and is much much better at handling its implications with stronger law enforcemet etc etc), then a reasonable solution to address that problem is to restrict immigration.

I am for freedom of religion and I didn't say I am for a ban against building mosques (but I would restrict the number of mosques when necessary), I said I am against tall minarets (because of the symbolical value they have in the sky-line in transforming our culture) and against mosques being allowed auditory call-to-prayer announcements that can be heard over the neighborhoods.

Between muslims there are different interpretations of the Quran and how to design a muslim society, and a significant part of muslims belong to a group that is harder to integrate with Western principles.

The Arab sping so far has replaced traditional dictators with a questionable form of theocracy rather than democratic societies in the Western sense.

The thing with immigration, is that it will bring troublemakers with them anyway, it is no better or worse with any race or religion. 

And i don't get the argument against changing cultures. If the muslims ever do it, it will be no different to how us whites destroyed the native american lifestyle and culture, the current American culture is against everything the natives ever stood for. 

And also why should Muslim societies try to be like us, our principles and culture and way of life are far from perfect (im not saying there way of things are perfect either). They should try to work with us, but they shouldn't change their ideals from the Quran to our ideals of the Bible. Our differences must remain, but we shall not continue to be ignorant of each other. 

As for the Arab Spring, surely such countries like Egypt and Libya are moving towards progress steadily. 



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'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

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badgenome on 22 April 2013
the2real4mafol said:

And i don't get the argument against changing cultures. If the muslims ever do it, it will be no different to how us whites destroyed the native american lifestyle and culture, the current American culture is against everything the natives ever stood for. 

So you don't get why Europeans would not want to end up like Native Americans...?

the2real4mafol said:

As for the Arab Spring, surely such countries like Egypt and Libya are moving towards progress steadily. 

Um... yeah. That didn't work out so well for Egypt, did it? While it wasn't a sustainable situation to have a dictator like Mubarak keeping a lid on the Islamists, things have only gotten worse since he was desposed. If there is progress being made there, it is going to be the same slow progress that has been made in Iran the college students of yesteryear were the Islamists and their children grow up to rebel against that.



the2real4mafol on 22 April 2013
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

And i don't get the argument against changing cultures. If the muslims ever do it, it will be no different to how us whites destroyed the native american lifestyle and culture, the current American culture is against everything the natives ever stood for. 

So you don't get why Europeans would not want to end up like Native Americans...?

No it's not that, it's that we pretty much destroyed everything they was. Because of what we did to them, this once strong group of tribes ruled this place alongside nature and respected it for what it was. We go over and they trusted us and yet we enslaved and killed must of them, just because they were in our way. That is imperialism for you. It makes me ashamed that my race done such horrible things, because we were ignorant fools. The natives were no threat to us. And what's wrong with there way of life. They wasted nothing, people worked for the greater good in order for their community to survive (individualism don't work in the wild), they were sustainable, they protected their environment and had few social problems like obesity. What is short term economic prosperity with all the problems, our American and European or any rapidly industrialising (like China) societies have now?

the2real4mafol said:

As for the Arab Spring, surely such countries like Egypt and Libya are moving towards progress steadily. 

Um... yeah. That didn't work out so well for Egypt, did it? While it wasn't a sustainable situation to have a dictator like Mubarak keeping a lid on the Islamists, things have only gotten worse since he was desposed. If there is progress being made there, it is going to be the same slow progress that has been made in Iran the college students of yesteryear were the Islamists and their children grow up to rebel against that.

And you can't say Egypt isn't democratic. To be honest, is it that different to American or British "democracy"? I'm sorry but democracy isn't just 2 parties, its a range of choices and representation. A coalition is far closer to actual democracy than what exist in the USA or any single or 2 party state.


Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Lostplanet22 on 22 April 2013

I have no problem that cultures change, they change whole the time, even if you live in a country with no immigration you will hear from your grandparents how much it changed... Globalisation it not always a nice thing, a starbucks on every corner is not something I applaud for =p.

The problem with the minority becoming the majority is also the rise of the radical muslims also against muslims. A pakistan nightstore owners get beaten up because he also have beer in his store and a good muslim don't sell beer... The three 16 year olds who beat him were set free after a week...the muslims in general say the pakistan guy asked for it and see the three 16 year olds as heroes. The minorty is the boss of the majority.



 

badgenome on 22 April 2013

the2real4mafol said:

And you can't say Egypt isn't democratic. To be honest, is it that different to American or British "democracy"? I'm sorry but democracy isn't just 2 parties, its a range of choices and representation. A coalition is far closer to actual democracy than what exist in the USA or any single or 2 party state.

Sure, it's democratic all right. It's actually a very good example of why democracy is garbage and nothing more than a dictatorship of the majority.

Whatever their other problems, America and Britain have certain basic rights that are enshrined into law and which are (at least in theory) not up for debate.



richardhutnik on 22 April 2013
badgenome said:

the2real4mafol said:

And you can't say Egypt isn't democratic. To be honest, is it that different to American or British "democracy"? I'm sorry but democracy isn't just 2 parties, its a range of choices and representation. A coalition is far closer to actual democracy than what exist in the USA or any single or 2 party state.

Sure, it's democratic all right. It's actually a very good example of why democracy is garbage and nothing more than a dictatorship of the majority.

Whatever their other problems, America and Britain have certain basic rights that are enshrined into law and which are (at least in theory) not up for debate.

As opposed to a non-Democratic Representative Republic, which is an unresponsive oligarchic collection of elites that aren't responsive to the wishes of the people?  Ultimately, either the government is responsive to the wishes of the people, or it isn't.  If you say "democracy is garbage" you don't want a government responsive to the people, but responsive to something else, and catering to a few.  Of course, you could the argue various forms of Minarchist, all the way out to anarchist, but that can end up turning into a battleground of abilities, complete with losers dying off.  Of course, seeing this (as most people do), ends up causing you to want to have SOME government out there, for SOME form of protection.