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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720 will Decide if WiiU RAM is enough.

twilight_link on 18 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
twilight_link said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DirtyP2002 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Actually Nintendo didn't allow third parties room to breathe and be themselves and thats how they ran the NES/SNES era. When Sony arrived they did what Sega couldnt and gave third parties and alternative that will make their own great games and allow third parties to fly. This is why they flocked to Sony for the format perks. Since then its been a beautiful relationship, hands down Sony and Microsoft deal with third party in a fair manner compared to Nintendo. Nintendo expects third parties to drop their aspirations to suit their weak console specs. That wont fly if the market is growing and has money to spend. This new gen will start off a little slower than normal but third parties now have a backbone because of companies like Sony and Microsoft.

It's also beautiful that Sony is making its way to bankruptcy. In other words, it's beautiful for 3rd parties but I don't believe in the business model (loss-leading, buying out 3rd parites).

Sorry.


 


Keep talking about Sonys business model when we know its their outer gaming region that is the true loss leader. Sony has taken risks with consoles because they know they'll reap the rewards later and they have. The Vita is their only true flaw that is taking a while to pick up. The Move of all the last gen peripherals was the best...but had no games to show how truly precise it was compared to the competition.

The PS4 will be more affordable to put together and sell than the PS3 if you listened to what Sony said at the unveiling. It worked out best in everyones favor...words Nintendo fails to understand. Theres no everyone with them when it comes to development planning.

not sure if serious...

I am. Sonys cause for massive losses is outside of the gaming arena. They are currently profiting off of the PS3.

Sony lost billions of dollars on PS3, this platform is not profitable, the platform is drowning in red ink, if Nintendo jumped on the HD bandwagon at the dawn of 7th generation to compete with hd twins they were now literary bankrupt or at verge of bankruptcy, I'm sure you and your hardcore brethren would have liked this, but it didn't happened. Your series of posts is horrible slide of pure nonsense and unsupported claims.


The PS3 has been in the profit zone since 2010. 

so in your logic if my debt is many billions and then suddenly i earn some millions I'm profitable? if so this is bad even for circumstances of hardcore gamers logic



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happydolphin on 18 April 2013
twilight_link said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The PS3 has been in the profit zone since 2010. 

so in your logic if my debt is many billions and then suddenly i earn some millions I'm profitable? if so this is bad even for circumstances of hardcore gamers logic

Then, add to this the fact that they expect the PS4 to be even more success full than the PS3 at launch, it will be even more of a loss-leader.



twilight_link on 18 April 2013
happydolphin said:
twilight_link said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The PS3 has been in the profit zone since 2010. 

so in your logic if my debt is many billions and then suddenly i earn some millions I'm profitable? if so this is bad even for circumstances of hardcore gamers logic

Then, add to this the fact that they expect the PS4 to be even more success full than the PS3 at launch, it will be even more of a loss-leader.


i reply latter



Mazty on 18 April 2013
happydolphin said:
Mazty said:

You've admitted to having never seen state of the art graphics so that does make you ignorant with regard to graphics, more so when you claim you can't see the point in them, the point in something you've never seen. 

No one said the games are unplayable...Thats rediculous. However the downscaling of something for the PS4 would be so time intensive, and require such a cut back in system specs, it wouldn't be worth it and the end product would be too different from the original. 

You've admitted you've never seen state of the art graphics - this does make you ignorant on the topic. Fact. Don't be upset at me, be upset at the dictionary. 

I've never seen them off of youtube, on a 1080 display. But I've seen them on youtube, with all the effects. I've seen them on pictures, etc. etc.

@bold. That's because you aren't reading the thread. And it drives me up the wall. Yes people have said that things will be done on the PS4 that just can't be done on WiiU (in other words the game couldn't be made with gen 7 tech), and I said the only case where that is correct is the David Cage stuff (due to 1 to 1 human emotion attempt). Everything else is downscalable. And  you are speculating to say it would be too different from the original, when we've given many cases where downscaling has kept games playable (Witcher 2 PC versus xbox, Crysis 3 max settings versus low settings, etc.). How do you not know this if you're the one with the high-end PC?

I'm upset at you because you're just hanging on to words and not to the nuances in the meanings (because you don't want to understand, you just want to call me ignorant). I said I SAW the tech demos on youtube, I saw some high-end PC footage on youtube. Only diff is you saw it on a proper build, on a 1080P display, that's the only diff.

Also, even with the "knowledge" that I have, and I do have some at this point, I'm just no expert, I can tell you that if the difference is not so incredibly major to me, it will not be to the general public. There are some differences I simply don't see, then there are some I see. The same tech demo, someone will notice something I didn't. It doesn't make me as ignorant as it makes me normal. And guess who the mainstream is? Yep, you got it... normal people.

I had figured you have only seen the compressed videos and still images....This still makes you ignorant on the topic as you need to see the graphics in motion to understand the difference. If we consider Shadowfall will look much better when released due to further development and it not being a compressed video, go figure how it'll look.

How do you know everything is scaleable though? Define "scaleable". Is reducing the AI from ultra-realistics to run-of-the mill an adequate reduction? What about graphics? How many NPC's can be sacrificed? What about detail like draw distance and physics simulations? If you are wanting to see on the WiiU more or less the same games that will be on PS4, that won't happen; the ports will be like CoD for the wii, worse in every way. 

Saying that graphics can't noticably improve from the PS3 is very, very ignorant. As a PC gamer, I can tell you that graphics can still massively improve, with said improvements being noticable to anyone with a working pair of eyes. The fact you aren't even aware of youtube compression/the difference in quality shows how little you know about the topic at hand. 

Please don't bother replying until you actually see next-gen graphics first hand. Plus who exactly said "OMG Shadowfall doesn't (graphically) look any better"?? 



happydolphin on 18 April 2013
Mazty said:

I had figured you have only seen the compressed videos and still images....This still makes you ignorant on the topic as you need to see the graphics in motion to understand the difference. If we consider Shadowfall will look much better when released due to further development and it not being a compressed video, go figure how it'll look.

How do you know everything is scaleable though? Define "scaleable". Is reducing the AI from ultra-realistics to run-of-the mill an adequate reduction? What about graphics? How many NPC's can be sacrificed? What about detail like draw distance and physics simulations? If you are wanting to see on the WiiU more or less the same games that will be on PS4, that won't happen; the ports will be like CoD for the wii, worse in every way. 

Saying that graphics can't noticably improve from the PS3 is very, very ignorant. As a PC gamer, I can tell you that graphics can still massively improve, with said improvements being noticable to anyone with a working pair of eyes. The fact you aren't even aware of youtube compression/the difference in quality shows how little you know about the topic at hand. 

Please don't bother replying until you actually see next-gen graphics first hand. Plus who exactly said "OMG Shadowfall doesn't (graphically) look any better"?? 

@bold. I never said that... You're starting to piss me off. What I said was that the PS3 was currently capable of great things itself, what S.T.A.G.E. referred to as CGI-level graphics. I gave him Beyond, TLoU, TLG and screens and videos of these I've seen, and I considered them already very nice.

So you can say whatever you want, I know there is a difference, but I don't think it will be as important as you make it out to be, and I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I don't need to be an expert to figure that what will be done on the PS4 can be downscaled to PS3-like hardware, and that some of the drawing distance will be lost but it will NOT be a game-breaker. Also AI has to do more with the CPU than with the GPU and it was my understanding that the U was capable of advanced processing though less than the PS4 it will not be unable to run the AI from those games, I don't think you are right. The AI can be advanced and require advanced processing, but I think we've passed that point now. Now it's about graphical realism (lighting, particles, effects).

So in the end you can call me ignorant all you like, I have all the info on hand to believe you are wrong, and I am supported ITT by people who have more in depth knowledge than I do, and they agree with me, so with all due respect you can go fly a kite.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 18 April 2013
twilight_link said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
twilight_link said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DirtyP2002 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Actually Nintendo didn't allow third parties room to breathe and be themselves and thats how they ran the NES/SNES era. When Sony arrived they did what Sega couldnt and gave third parties and alternative that will make their own great games and allow third parties to fly. This is why they flocked to Sony for the format perks. Since then its been a beautiful relationship, hands down Sony and Microsoft deal with third party in a fair manner compared to Nintendo. Nintendo expects third parties to drop their aspirations to suit their weak console specs. That wont fly if the market is growing and has money to spend. This new gen will start off a little slower than normal but third parties now have a backbone because of companies like Sony and Microsoft.

It's also beautiful that Sony is making its way to bankruptcy. In other words, it's beautiful for 3rd parties but I don't believe in the business model (loss-leading, buying out 3rd parites).

Sorry.


 


Keep talking about Sonys business model when we know its their outer gaming region that is the true loss leader. Sony has taken risks with consoles because they know they'll reap the rewards later and they have. The Vita is their only true flaw that is taking a while to pick up. The Move of all the last gen peripherals was the best...but had no games to show how truly precise it was compared to the competition.

The PS4 will be more affordable to put together and sell than the PS3 if you listened to what Sony said at the unveiling. It worked out best in everyones favor...words Nintendo fails to understand. Theres no everyone with them when it comes to development planning.

not sure if serious...

I am. Sonys cause for massive losses is outside of the gaming arena. They are currently profiting off of the PS3.

Sony lost billions of dollars on PS3, this platform is not profitable, the platform is drowning in red ink, if Nintendo jumped on the HD bandwagon at the dawn of 7th generation to compete with hd twins they were now literary bankrupt or at verge of bankruptcy, I'm sure you and your hardcore brethren would have liked this, but it didn't happened. Your series of posts is horrible slide of pure nonsense and unsupported claims.


The PS3 has been in the profit zone since 2010. 

so in your logic if my debt is many billions and then suddenly i earn some millions I'm profitable? if so this is bad even for circumstances of hardcore gamers logic


You're displacing where the debt is majorly coming from. Ever since they started having financial woes the media has been saying the gaming industry is becoming one of their steadiest profiting schemes displacing the losses of their other electronics that they refuse to sell at competitive prices. This has been a rough gen but it doesnt meant it can get better. Sony and Microsoft have always sold their consoles at a loss to give us more in the box from the very beginning. This is the first time Sony has made a stupid mistake with their console and suffered the consequences for it only to profit four years later. The PS3 will be selling very well...especially since the Wii U is out its going to make the PS3 and XBox 360 even more appealing when you look at the library of games. Nintendo's next gen console is just too close in power and offerings to the current gen than comparable to next gen and its hurting them without more to offer and no major exclusives launching.



Mazty on 18 April 2013
happydolphin said:
snip

I'll cut to the chase.

People care about graphics. Joe average notices graphics and everyone has noticed the vast improvements as shown by the PS4 demos. The Wii U will almost certainly not get many games ported to it for numerous reasons:

1)Small user base
2)The cost of downgrading a game
3)The amount of downgrades required would inevitably and massively alter the game. 

You obviously aren't bothered about graphics, part of the reason being that you have never, ever seen leading graphics, yet want to proclaim how they aren't significantly better than what we currently have. That dude, is just complete ignorance. I'm actually willing to bet that the Wii U will be seen as 7th gen in the future rather than 8th gen, due to the lack of 8th gen games it'll get - people are already stating it's not 8th gen and thats before the PS4 launch.



happydolphin on 18 April 2013
Mazty said:

I'll cut to the chase.

People care about graphics. Joe average notices graphics and everyone has noticed the vast improvements as shown by the PS4 demos. The Wii U will almost certainly not get many games ported to it for numerous reasons:

1)Small user base
2)The cost of downgrading a game
3)The amount of downgrades required would inevitably and massively alter the game. 

You obviously aren't bothered about graphics, part of the reason being that you have never, ever seen leading graphics, yet want to proclaim how they aren't significantly better than what we currently have. That dude, is just complete ignorance. I'm actually willing to bet that the Wii U will be seen as 7th gen in the future rather than 8th gen, due to the lack of 8th gen games it'll get - people are already stating it's not 8th gen and thats before the PS4 launch.

Your thick is quite skull. I mentioned that I have seen what the new systems can do, I've watched the demos, and I have seen leading graphics, and I understand their appeal. However there are cases where I can really barely tell the difference unless I look in extreme scrutiny.

THAT is what I'm talking about.

As for your point, the thread isn't debating 1 or 2, but only point 3. And I disagree with your point 3 and current downscaling trends prove you wrong.

I don't care what the U will be seen like, what I care about are facts, and the facts disagree with your post (especially point 3), that's all there is to it.



Mazty on 18 April 2013
happydolphin said:
Mazty said:

I'll cut to the chase.

People care about graphics. Joe average notices graphics and everyone has noticed the vast improvements as shown by the PS4 demos. The Wii U will almost certainly not get many games ported to it for numerous reasons:

1)Small user base
2)The cost of downgrading a game
3)The amount of downgrades required would inevitably and massively alter the game. 

You obviously aren't bothered about graphics, part of the reason being that you have never, ever seen leading graphics, yet want to proclaim how they aren't significantly better than what we currently have. That dude, is just complete ignorance. I'm actually willing to bet that the Wii U will be seen as 7th gen in the future rather than 8th gen, due to the lack of 8th gen games it'll get - people are already stating it's not 8th gen and thats before the PS4 launch.

Your thick is quite skull. I mentioned that I have seen what the new systems can do, I've watched the demos, and I have seen leading graphics, and I understand their appeal. However there are cases where I can really barely tell the difference unless I look in extreme scrutiny.

THAT is what I'm talking about.

As for your point, the thread isn't debating 1 or 2, but only point 3. And I disagree with your point 3 and current downscaling trends prove you wrong.

I don't care what the U will be seen like, what I care about are facts, and the facts disagree with your post (especially point 3), that's all there is to it.

Seeing some compressed youtube video is about as reflective of the final product as seeing a Ferrari on a poster as it is to drive it. 
It's painfully clear you have no idea what you are on about.

Considering that release titles of the PS4 look better than end 7th gen games, I've no idea what point you are trying to make or what you are even referring to. 

LOLOLOL oh just stop talking. Yeah enjoy taking 7 cores down to 1 or 2 low clocked, inferior architecture, considerablly less and much slower RAM and onto a relatively piss-weak GPU. You may as well be talking about taking a PS4 game and scaling it to the 360. It won't happen. The fact your technical knowledge seems to ne non-existant makes me wonder why are you even debating this point?

Bud, you have no fucking clue about facts. Your tech knowledge seems to be non-existant. Stop being so damn stubborn. If you don't know anything about a topic, research it and THEN comment on it. Ignorance is not a justifiable argument.



happydolphin on 18 April 2013
Mazty said:

Seeing some compressed youtube video is about as reflective of the final product as seeing a Ferrari on a poster as it is to drive it. 
It's painfully clear you have no idea what you are on about.

Considering that release titles of the PS4 look better than end 7th gen games, I've no idea what point you are trying to make or what you are even referring to. 

LOLOLOL oh just stop talking. Yeah enjoy taking 7 cores down to 1 or 2 low clocked, inferior architecture, considerablly less and much slower RAM and onto a relatively piss-weak GPU. You may as well be talking about taking a PS4 game and scaling it to the 360. It won't happen. The fact your technical knowledge seems to ne non-existant makes me wonder why are you even debating this point?

Bud, you have no fucking clue about facts. Your tech knowledge seems to be non-existant. Stop being so damn stubborn. If you don't know anything about a topic, research it and THEN comment on it. Ignorance is not a justifiable argument.

Can Metro Last Light be played on the PS3 as well as on Max settings on PC? Crysis 3?

Just be quiet.