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Forums - Microsoft - 'Women are the new core,' says Microsoft narrative designer

pokoko said:
rutea7 said:
Also I don't own the system cause I chose not to and as a female gamer should have a say in this. I want to play good games and like jay said its not about playing a female, I love my oldschool ff games where the protagonists are male. Cloud, squall, zidane. As long as its a good story I'm in.

That's what I think.  A lot of what I'm reading from people in the industry sounds artificial, like these developers and publishers are looking at the demographics and then rushing out to force in more female characters for the sake of appealing to female gamers.  It comes across as really contrived.  If your writers bring you a good story with a good main character, then go with it; don't try to change it into a female OR male for the sake of marketing.  As a consumer, that feels insulting.

When I read a novel, I'm not worrying about what gender the main character is.  When I watch a new series, I'm not throwing it aside if it's not a male hero.  Why do they think games should be any different?  It should be what fits the concept.  The quality is the important part.

I think there have been more than enough successful female characters for people to finally stop worrying about a female lead being bad for sales.  


That's part of why I did not bother to make any real comment because the original commentary in the article seemed too artificial to take seriously. It's like feel good commentary, but virtually no substance.

Hey, I would not mind more female leads in games, sure... but it's not like we are in shortage of games to play or diversity in gaming. I would care more if the experiences end up being more cookie cutter, which I feel like it has really become that way in the industry.. they are right that they do need to adjust more to change and fast. Having female leads and bringing about more unexpected things would help all fronts... but honestly, it's not 'necessary' to engineer stuff so that we cater to only specific demographics or broaden out to expand to another base... we already have a demographic, it's called gamers.



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hahaha, I love how women are the "core" now that some are playing a MS console, but when they played a Nintendo console, they were refered to as "teh stupid cazuals"



this is last gen though, if you say no, ask Wii and DS and Nintendo!



VGKing said:
Can't say I'm surprised Microsoft thinks this way. There is a flaw is this logic though. Even IF women are the new core.....what makes you think they like to play Kinect? I've met some "girl gamers" and they play the same games I do.


If the person making the quote actually mentioned kinect you probably would be on to something but since he did not say anything of the sort, I would guess you are off base.  I know its easy to knee jerk and throw Kinect into anything MS states that does not have a male dominant core appeal but it does not sound like this guy is talking hardware but just concepts.

As another poster mentioned, its actually the West that is so male centric because in places like Japan, its the women that rule game purchases and dominate the market in sales.  Women gamers in Japan are a huge gaming buying market.  With smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices getting games into more women hands, its only natural for any gaming company to start to respect woman as a market to pursue.



VGKing said:So only women can enjoy female lead characters? That doesn't make sense. Taking a look at Microsofts strategies these past few years, combined with this article(which I read in full before commenting) only leads me to conclude that this is their reason for including Kinect 2 with every Xbox 720. 

If women are the new core, that doesn't mean you need to create new experiences for women since the "girl gamer" out there is happy enjoying Bioshock Infinite or Gears of War just like the rest of us. 

The reason for including Kinect 2 with the nextbox is the same reason Sony will include the next PSeye with the PS4.  If you want your piece of hardware supported by developers than it needs to be included with the device.  Its a pretty simple concept and its the reason the Wii included the Wiimote instead of a traditional controller.

Is Kinect MS entry to a wider audience, Yes.  It makes sense for MS to have a diverse console then to only cater to a shrinking core group.  MS doesn't want to be considered as a core console but a family console that caters to everyone in the home instead of just one person.  Sony wants the same thing and they have games that focus on those areas.  Actually the PS2 was pretty damn diverse console game wise and I believe Sony wants to get back that mojo.  Nintendo is already there but need more support fron third parties to keep content coming to their system.

So, if games are catered towards men and thats fine, why is it a problem designing games that cater to women.  In Japan this is done all the time and the market is huge, its the West that has fallen behind in this area where its a strange situation.



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I don't think he's saying that woman are taking over the core or that MS is going to focus on woman or that he is even speaking about some big MS strategy to appeal to women. I think he is talking about woman playing the same games as men and writing stories that appeal to both. Just like TV and movies. You will always have the ones that are meant for men and the ones meant for woman. Shows like The Walking Dead, Mad Men, The Game of Thrones have cross-gender appeal. Those are big shows. This guy is just saying that there is a new gaming market that wants stuff that isn't just for men. He's right.



Marucha said:
pokoko said:
rutea7 said:
Also I don't own the system cause I chose not to and as a female gamer should have a say in this. I want to play good games and like jay said its not about playing a female, I love my oldschool ff games where the protagonists are male. Cloud, squall, zidane. As long as its a good story I'm in.

That's what I think.  A lot of what I'm reading from people in the industry sounds artificial, like these developers and publishers are looking at the demographics and then rushing out to force in more female characters for the sake of appealing to female gamers.  It comes across as really contrived.  If your writers bring you a good story with a good main character, then go with it; don't try to change it into a female OR male for the sake of marketing.  As a consumer, that feels insulting.

When I read a novel, I'm not worrying about what gender the main character is.  When I watch a new series, I'm not throwing it aside if it's not a male hero.  Why do they think games should be any different?  It should be what fits the concept.  The quality is the important part.

I think there have been more than enough successful female characters for people to finally stop worrying about a female lead being bad for sales.  


That's part of why I did not bother to make any real comment because the original commentary in the article seemed too artificial to take seriously. It's like feel good commentary, but virtually no substance.

Hey, I would not mind more female leads in games, sure... but it's not like we are in shortage of games to play or diversity in gaming. I would care more if the experiences end up being more cookie cutter, which I feel like it has really become that way in the industry.. they are right that they do need to adjust more to change and fast. Having female leads and bringing about more unexpected things would help all fronts... but honestly, it's not 'necessary' to engineer stuff so that we cater to only specific demographics or broaden out to expand to another base... we already have a demographic, it's called gamers.

How many games can you tell me that released in the last 5 years featured a character that was not white.  Hell, I cannot remember the last game that featured a charater that was black or latino.  You can even get rarer if you go for Black Women or Latino women.  You can find tons of books, movies, TV shows, shorts that have a very diverse cast of leading women and ethic groups but it sure is hard to find that with games.  What the article seems to suggest is that its pretty obvious that any gender besides male and white is a rarity in games and thus so are the stories created for those games.

I wonder how well would Uncharted would have sold if the character was a Latino woman.  It definitely would be a lot more interesting story wise if the character was written by a latino women who could bring the character out.  Of course that character would never get a green light.



So Farmville coming to the 720 confirmed?



Machiavellian said:
Marucha said:
pokoko said:
rutea7 said:
Also I don't own the system cause I chose not to and as a female gamer should have a say in this. I want to play good games and like jay said its not about playing a female, I love my oldschool ff games where the protagonists are male. Cloud, squall, zidane. As long as its a good story I'm in.

That's what I think.  A lot of what I'm reading from people in the industry sounds artificial, like these developers and publishers are looking at the demographics and then rushing out to force in more female characters for the sake of appealing to female gamers.  It comes across as really contrived.  If your writers bring you a good story with a good main character, then go with it; don't try to change it into a female OR male for the sake of marketing.  As a consumer, that feels insulting.

When I read a novel, I'm not worrying about what gender the main character is.  When I watch a new series, I'm not throwing it aside if it's not a male hero.  Why do they think games should be any different?  It should be what fits the concept.  The quality is the important part.

I think there have been more than enough successful female characters for people to finally stop worrying about a female lead being bad for sales.  


That's part of why I did not bother to make any real comment because the original commentary in the article seemed too artificial to take seriously. It's like feel good commentary, but virtually no substance.

Hey, I would not mind more female leads in games, sure... but it's not like we are in shortage of games to play or diversity in gaming. I would care more if the experiences end up being more cookie cutter, which I feel like it has really become that way in the industry.. they are right that they do need to adjust more to change and fast. Having female leads and bringing about more unexpected things would help all fronts... but honestly, it's not 'necessary' to engineer stuff so that we cater to only specific demographics or broaden out to expand to another base... we already have a demographic, it's called gamers.

How many games can you tell me that released in the last 5 years featured a character that was not white.  Hell, I cannot remember the last game that featured a charater that was black or latino.  You can even get rarer if you go for Black Women or Latino women.  You can find tons of books, movies, TV shows, shorts that have a very diverse cast of leading women and ethic groups but it sure is hard to find that with games.  What the article seems to suggest is that its pretty obvious that any gender besides male and white is a rarity in games and thus so are the stories created for those games.

I wonder how well would Uncharted would have sold if the character was a Latino woman.  It definitely would be a lot more interesting story wise if the character was written by a latino women who could bring the character out.  Of course that character would never get a green light.

All the games with character builders like Mass Effect, Fable, Saints Row, Elderscrolls, etc. let the player choose their gender and race. I know it's not the same thing as Sam Fischer, Lara Croft, and Nathan Drake as the official leading characters of their games. But it does show that things are slowly moving forward and white men won't always be the main characters.



enrageorange said:
rutea7 said:
Funny... Women have been accounted as core market in Asian countries since like always. There hasn't been exactly a lack of strong female leads. There could be more but I don't feel there's a lack.
Ubisoft did great with Aveline in ACIII: Liberation, Lara Croft just got "reborn", Lightning is a strong character and there's plenty more.

Is Microsoft just opening up to this? Maybe they have a new IP with a female protagonist. Let's hope its not kinect yoga.

You  named 3 female lead games. Now think of all the male lead games. I could name 10 new games that came out in just the last 2 weeks. Obviously we can't expect an even 50/50 ratio. That simply isn't the ratio of core female gamers vs male gamers. But it needs to be better than 95/5 which it currently is.

No it doesnt cause women dont need to play female characters just like men dont need to play only male characters.