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Forums - Microsoft - EDGE 'always on, always connected' Durango SDK leak is real

thranx on 21 March 2013
Tachikoma said:
thranx said:
Tachikoma said:
kowenicki said:
Tachikoma said:
"It does reveal, however, that all games on Blu-Ray will be installed onto the console’s hard drive, and that play from the optical disc will not be supported."

Let me just spell out why this feature is the way it is, you may think "awesome, that means super fast load times", but in actual fact it means that a console cannot play games from disk, so to play you must install it to the hard drive - this is pretty much how it's going to go down:

New game put in console - console activates game to account, either through disk ID or through provided code with the game (online pass style), once activated whenever the console next goes online, said activation ticket is revoked for use from other consoles, meaning that your specific disk is now only useful if you deleted the installed game and want to reinstall it again.
Activation of game on another console, offline will result in the game working until the moment you take the console online, then the game will be forcibly deactivated and potential for bans.

Essentially, always on, always connected, plus refusal of play from disk gives microsoft complete control over what you play, patching games on the fly without your input, and essentially making used games worthless.


assumption

or its just a natural progression of what the 360 does....

Educated assumption based on experience with the development kit and production guidelines.

but completely throwing out current policy on these very issues. not a very educated assumption if you fail to grasp how they currently do the exact same things but still allow used games. But I guess it is an assumption.

There is a huge difference between online passes and ownership of a used game where to play online you must purchase a new online pass, and the console blocking the use of a used game completely - it's not about limiting it to offline play, the moment the console sees an internet connection, the game will be deactivated and unplayable, offline or on.

and that has nothing to do with intalling games to a drive, like the current xbox 360 does. Installs a game to its drive, and requires the disc to be in to verify ownership, and does not affect used games at all. Not sure why you are talking about all this online passes, and deactivating stuff. it doesnt mention anyhting like that, and currently doesnt work like that. so it must just be stuff that was made up some where in someones head.



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Darth Tigris on 21 March 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
Wow, people are making a lot of presumptions from this news.

To me, this just sounds like sleep mode.

If you look at who's making the presumptions, it's the usual suspects.  When things are actually announced whenever MS fully reveals the console, they'll say that they got scared and changed things.  New gen, same old song ...



theprof00 on 21 March 2013
kowenicki said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track


....and you (and many others here) seem to be missing/forgetting that full installs for all games already exists for the 360.  Kinda makes the majority of your post invalid. (1,2,4,5)

I install all of my 360 discs and run from the HDD.

and you cant turn kinect off?  really? wrong I'm afraid.  and microst admit they track? yeah, if you let them... you can turn it off too in settings.

As I said, misinformation and lies abound in this thread. 

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.



thranx on 21 March 2013
theprof00 said:
kowenicki said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track


....and you (and many others here) seem to be missing/forgetting that full installs for all games already exists for the 360.  Kinda makes the majority of your post invalid. (1,2,4,5)

I install all of my 360 discs and run from the HDD.

and you cant turn kinect off?  really? wrong I'm afraid.  and microst admit they track? yeah, if you let them... you can turn it off too in settings.

As I said, misinformation and lies abound in this thread. 

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.


pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be



walsufnir on 21 March 2013
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
kowenicki said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track


....and you (and many others here) seem to be missing/forgetting that full installs for all games already exists for the 360.  Kinda makes the majority of your post invalid. (1,2,4,5)

I install all of my 360 discs and run from the HDD.

and you cant turn kinect off?  really? wrong I'm afraid.  and microst admit they track? yeah, if you let them... you can turn it off too in settings.

As I said, misinformation and lies abound in this thread. 

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.


pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be


because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.



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theprof00 on 21 March 2013
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track

 

to 1) what? they could easily take the worse way (run off disc) and just port it. where is the difficulty?

to 2) ??? who says that there is no cd-protection? to me it sounds like the way it is now with 360 but install is mandatory.

to 3) it's the same way it is now.

to 4) ehh... ps3 has an hdd, 360 has an hdd, ps4 will have an hdd... what are you trying to say here?

to 5) a point to both ps4 and nextbox.

to 6) just put a towel over it, works with birds, too ;)

1. Right, which will take up extra space. It would be one thing if games were installed, but if they had to be copied, therein lies the problem.
2. So, still putting the game in the system, yet 50 comments already saying "yay, play without the disc".
3. No, it's not, not a single system ever has to be connected in any shape or form.
4. If you install the full game data to a hard drive, you are more likely to run into problems than by running it off the disc, because even tiny amounts of data corrupting can break a game. Worse, hdd game storage allows for lots of hacking opportunities.
5. If you're installing all games mandatorily, then you need a much bigger drive. It is not "a point to both", it's "both will require the same space, and 720 will require more on top of that because it requires hundreds of gigs to be installed." Even a TERABYTE is going to fill up quickly when you're talking BluRays.
6. Well that's certainly one solution.



mike_intellivision on 21 March 2013

In reading this, there is as much said as unsaid in the cryptic information currently available.

The "news" is being interpreted to the best possible outcome by Microsoft fans and the worst possible outcome by its detractors. That should not be surprising. The same thing is happening with respect to the unknowns surrounding the PS4 by those for and against Sony.

That all being said, the potential does exist for Microsoft to limit games to a single installation - or installation to a single machine. The idea is not new -- it has existed since Sony patented a method to prevent used game play before releasing the PS3. But whether and if so, how, are unknown.

Likewise, "always on" could mean a stand-by state or could mean the DRM like what has crashed in PC games by Ubisoft, Activision and EA. That must be answered.

All in all though, these moves tend to give the producer more control over the product -- which means taking away power from the owner/user.

We shall know all the answers in a short time.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
theprof00 on 21 March 2013
walsufnir said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.

pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be

because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.

lot of eyerolling today for me. PS3 games ARE. Oh, so what, suddenly all your ports are going to be PC games? (Not like that's any different than it is now)



WebmasterX on 21 March 2013

Edge even so famous. It has never been reliable. At least in Europe.



walsufnir on 21 March 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track

 

to 1) what? they could easily take the worse way (run off disc) and just port it. where is the difficulty?

to 2) ??? who says that there is no cd-protection? to me it sounds like the way it is now with 360 but install is mandatory.

to 3) it's the same way it is now.

to 4) ehh... ps3 has an hdd, 360 has an hdd, ps4 will have an hdd... what are you trying to say here?

to 5) a point to both ps4 and nextbox.

to 6) just put a towel over it, works with birds, too ;)

1. Right, which will take up extra space. It would be one thing if games were installed, but if they had to be copied, therein lies the problem.
2. So, still putting the game in the system, yet 50 comments already saying "yay, play without the disc".
3. No, it's not, not a single system ever has to be connected in any shape or form.
4. If you install the full game data to a hard drive, you are more likely to run into problems than by running it off the disc, because even tiny amounts of data corrupting can break a game. Worse, hdd game storage allows for lots of hacking opportunities.
5. If you're installing all games mandatorily, then you need a much bigger drive. It is not "a point to both", it's "both will require the same space, and 720 will require more on top of that because it requires hundreds of gigs to be installed." Even a TERABYTE is going to fill up quickly when you're talking BluRays.
6. Well that's certainly one solution.

1. depends and will be seen.

2. oh yes, the amount of comments is definitely supporting your argument ;) nice one.

3. I was referring that the same was said with Wii and 360 before they were released.  

4. So ps3 by now uses partly mandatory installs to HDD but I never heard that it was a big issue that games didn't work properly anymore because of broken HDDs. ODD is the worst they can do: set to break, loud, unbelievably slow due to insane access-times, produce heat. Also HDDs have extra sectors for corrupted sectors. This is not a console problem but a problem with every memory that can be written.

5. Because every game uses 50Gb? Hahaha, no :) It didn't happen to ps3 and it won't happen with nextbox and/or ps4. Some games could be quite big, yes, but I highly doubt that they all get that big. I expect ~20Gb on average (which would be worth ~45 games with 1TB).