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Forums - Sony - Nvidia bitterness continues, compares PS4 specs to a 'low-end CPU'

ethomaz on 16 March 2013

Scoobes said:

You're getting things mixed up. An APU is a combination of CPU and GPU on the same die. The CPU part in the PS4s APU is relatively weak (2 Jaguar CPU parts put together to give an 8 core CPU component). The GPU component is far more powerful than anything AMD have put into an APU before. It's close to a dedicated 7850 in spec and is the first APU to use the GCN architecture.

You might have done your research, but not very well.

I agree.

But the 8-core Jaguar is not that bad too... and the GPU is close to 7870 than 7850.



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sergiodaly on 16 March 2013
keroncoward said:


It is a CONFIRMED customized Tablet/Mobile Phone GPU. Go research what the bobcat is (basically the Jaguar is two bobcats put together). The only RAM that would matter to help visuals is the VRAM on the video card itself. The RAM we are speaking about will only help draw distance, how fast the game loads up and they will set aside some to add features like cross game chat and whatever else. People treating 8GB RAM like its the new cell lol. If both GPUs have the same modern DX11 like features then we would not see that much of a difference.

you are missing something... bobcat and jaguar are code names for a CPU line up (called APU by AMD, that does have a GPU inside, like PS4 SoC does)...
but the GPUs used on the APU current line up are nothing to do with the GPU used in the PS4 APU (PS4 is custom and is the most powerful AMD ever built).
the RAM in the PS4 is system RAM and VRAM in the same pool, so its used to better textures... they are not separated...
The best Tablet/Mobile GPU goes for 80 Gflpos and the one in the PS4 do 1800 Gflops. and the architecture is not Tablet/Mobile phone, its not confirmed yet, but for the power/heat envelope, is expected to be a laptop mobile chip (will be used in the future, for gaming laptops), and its the best AMD laptop GPU, and the differences with a desktop GPU are not much (lower clock, better energy management, etc)

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drkohler on 16 March 2013
keroncoward said:

 Jaguar APU is 2 tablet/mobile phone gpu taped together (FACT). ..

For someone who "knows what im talking about.", you do not seem to know that this cannot work at all, for theoretical reasons. The PS4 cpu and the PS4 gpu are a lot more sophisticated than any generic parts from AMD.  At least for the gpu bit, any comparison with existing gpus is difficult, because all the interfaces and additional features are tailor-made by Sony engineers not AMD engineers. For those reasons, and as a rough gues, I expect the PS4 pgu to perform equal to at least a standard 7870.



keroncoward on 16 March 2013
sergiodaly said:
keroncoward said:


It is a CONFIRMED customized Tablet/Mobile Phone GPU. Go research what the bobcat is (basically the Jaguar is two bobcats put together). The only RAM that would matter to help visuals is the VRAM on the video card itself. The RAM we are speaking about will only help draw distance, how fast the game loads up and they will set aside some to add features like cross game chat and whatever else. People treating 8GB RAM like its the new cell lol. If both GPUs have the same modern DX11 like features then we would not see that much of a difference.

you are missing something... bobcat and jaguar are code names for a CPU line up (called APU by AMD, that does have a GPU inside, like PS4 SoC does)...
but the GPUs used on the APU current line up are nothing to do with the GPU used in the PS4 APU (PS4 is custom and is the most powerful AMD ever built).
the RAM in the PS4 is system RAM and VRAM in the same pool, so its used to better textures... they are not separated...
The best Tablet/Mobile GPU goes for 80 Gflpos and the one in the PS4 do 1800 Gflops. and the architecture is not Tablet/Mobile phone, its not confirmed yet, but for the power/heat envelope, is expected to be a laptop mobile chip (will be used in the future, for gaming laptops), and its the best AMD laptop GPU, and the differences with a desktop GPU are not much (lower clock, better energy management, etc)


I never said the VRAM and system RAM was separated i was explaining to him that RAM does not equate to better textures or visuals. Of course you will have to have more RAM than VRAM but people treating 8gb RAM like its making the graphics better. People saying Nvidia is butthurt when its pretty obvious PS4 was never intended to compete with a gaming PC.  Sure go ahead and put 16 gb RAM together with a Geforce 5200 with 256 mb VRAM and come back and tell me how the textures look. Bobcat and Jaguar are codenames you are correct but they are based on the same archetecture. I was exaggerating when i said they were duck taped together cause the Jaguar only performs about 30% more than the Bobcat for the most from the article i linked.



superchunk on 16 March 2013
TheJimbo1234 said:
superchunk said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
The guy is right....but of course dodges the real issue - price.
A "gaming PC" is normally £800+. No shit that such a PC will blow away a ~$450 console. Need he state the Earth is round whilst he is at it?

Though it makes me wonder what involvement, if any, they have had with the 720 and if the hardware they have put in it is piss poor in comparison.

the NeXtBox is using very similar setup as PS4. See my sig.


But that is all rumours. One week it is using some Intel beast, the next it is AMD. There have been no legit reports on it yet.


The same sources that leaked 100% accurate ps4 info leaked nxbox info. Its legit. Aside from a last minute change in ram like ps4.



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Dgc1808 on 16 March 2013

"If the PS4 ships in December as Sony indicated, it will only offer about half the performance of a GTX680 GPU"

Really?! All of that?! That's awesome.



4 ≈ One

HoloDust on 16 March 2013
keroncoward said:

It is a CONFIRMED customized Tablet/Mobile Phone GPU. Go research what the bobcat is (basically the Jaguar is two bobcats put together). The only RAM that would matter to help visuals is the VRAM on the video card itself. The RAM we are speaking about will only help draw distance, how fast the game loads up and they will set aside some to add features like cross game chat and whatever else. People treating 8GB RAM like its the new cell lol. If both GPUs have the same modern DX11 like features then we would not see that much of a difference.


You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...

- Jaguar is low-power CPU arhcitecture, not GPU. It is aimed at tablets, netbooks and ultra-thin notebooks. I has nothing to do with mobile phones. It is NOT two Bobcats put toghether

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/13-02-19/95a.jpg

- PS4 has fully coherent GDDR5 memory pool with unified adress space for CPU and GPU - their is no separate system RAM and VRAM in PS4

- more RAM is not new Cell - more RAM allows for better textures, better lighting and in potential future engines better Sparse Voxel Octree rendering, to name just a few advantages.



sergiodaly on 16 March 2013
keroncoward said:
sergiodaly said:
keroncoward said:


It is a CONFIRMED customized Tablet/Mobile Phone GPU. Go research what the bobcat is (basically the Jaguar is two bobcats put together). The only RAM that would matter to help visuals is the VRAM on the video card itself. The RAM we are speaking about will only help draw distance, how fast the game loads up and they will set aside some to add features like cross game chat and whatever else. People treating 8GB RAM like its the new cell lol. If both GPUs have the same modern DX11 like features then we would not see that much of a difference.

you are missing something... bobcat and jaguar are code names for a CPU line up (called APU by AMD, that does have a GPU inside, like PS4 SoC does)...
but the GPUs used on the APU current line up are nothing to do with the GPU used in the PS4 APU (PS4 is custom and is the most powerful AMD ever built).
the RAM in the PS4 is system RAM and VRAM in the same pool, so its used to better textures... they are not separated...
The best Tablet/Mobile GPU goes for 80 Gflpos and the one in the PS4 do 1800 Gflops. and the architecture is not Tablet/Mobile phone, its not confirmed yet, but for the power/heat envelope, is expected to be a laptop mobile chip (will be used in the future, for gaming laptops), and its the best AMD laptop GPU, and the differences with a desktop GPU are not much (lower clock, better energy management, etc)


I never said the VRAM and system RAM was separated i was explaining to him that RAM does not equate to better textures or visuals. Of course you will have to have more RAM than VRAM but people treating 8gb RAM like its making the graphics better. People saying Nvidia is butthurt when its pretty obvious PS4 was never intended to compete with a gaming PC.  Sure go ahead and put 16 gb RAM together with a Geforce 5200 with 256 mb VRAM and come back and tell me how the textures look. Bobcat and Jaguar are codenames you are correct but they are based on the same archetecture. I was exaggerating when i said they were duck taped together cause the Jaguar only performs about 30% more than the Bobcat for the most from the article i linked.

look at it like this... the 8GBs in the PS4 will work like this... a game is running, 1 GB is for OS, 3 GBs are for the CPU as system RAM and the rest is for the GPU to use as VRAM (and that can change between the two (system ram and increase/decrease with the invert effect in the VRAM) but lets keep this fix for now... how does 4 GBs of VRAM does not give the devs the ability to use better textures compared with the current gen, wii U or  99% of PCs out there? it does... doesn't it? as long as the GPU can handle that kind of data... it will help the graphics...
@ bold - that is true for a PC... in a console the usage of VRam can most of the times be greater than RAM usage. obviously it depends on the game but that can happen often.

Jaguar is the successor of Bobcat and does perform 30% better than Bobcat, but its 30% per core... with 4 the cores instead of 2, a multithread application will perform 2.6 times faster in the Jaguar APU versus the Bobcat APU.
BTW the PS4 has two Jaguar CPUs "duck taped"...

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Dgc1808 on 16 March 2013
CGI-Quality said:
Dgc1808 said:
"If the PS4 ships in December as Sony indicated, it will only offer about half the performance of a GTX680 GPU"

Really?! All of that?! That's awesome.

Even though Sony didn't say it would ship in December.

As I said, they come off really bitter, so much so that they're making things up now!


I know, i just found that funny. Half of what a 680 can accomplish in a console would be pretty amazing considering the price tag of a 680. That combined with less overhead that PC games have to deal with would make for a pretty compelling 400$ (hopefully) console this year. lol

He is being bitter but that line would actually be good news for console gamers, assuming that PS4 does launch at an attractive price.



4 ≈ One

HoloDust on 16 March 2013
sergiodaly said:

look at it like this... the 8GBs in the PS4 will work like this... a game is running, 1 GB is for OS, 3 GBs are for the CPU as system RAM and the rest is for the GPU to use as VRAM....


Actually, with HSA features, there is no need for system to take so much memory:

- CPU and GPU now access the memory with the same address space. Pointers can now be freely passed between CPU and GPU.

- GPU can now access and cache data from coherent memory regions in the system memory, and also reference the data from CPU's cache. Cache coherency is maintained.

- GPU can take advantage of the shared virtual memory between CPU and GPU, and pageable system memory can now be referenced directly by the GPU, instead of being copied or pinned before accessing.