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Forums - Politics Discussion - I #standwithrand to protest drone killings (TEXAS STRAIGHT TALK VIDEO)

sc94597 said:

lol I'm done with you. This conversation is going FUCKING NOWHERE. Again with strawman arguments. The hypocrisy found in your modes of argument is quite illuminating. 

You think military drones somehow bare some sort of resembalance to ones used by emergency services....Do you see hellfire missiles on the Mexican-US border? No? Guess what - the CBP have been using drones for ages. How many 5th violations do you see there?

You are supporting a man whose argument was nothing more than sensationlist fear-mongering. 



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Here's a great article by Ron Paul on the topic. 

http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2013/03/10/congress-drones-and-the-imperial-presidency/

 

Last week the US Senate took a break from debating the phony cuts known as “sequestration,” for Senator Rand Paul to hold a 13-hour filibuster to force the Obama administration to state whether it believes the President has the right to kill American citizens with drones on US soil. I find it tragic that there has to be a discussion on an issue that should be so self-evident.

However, feeling the pressure, the administration finally said “no,” but in language so twisted that no one should feel in the slightest bit reassured. According to Attorney General Eric Holder, the president does not believe he has the right to use the military to kill an American who is “not engaged in combat on American soil.” Left undefined is how the administration defines “combat.” As constitutional scholar Jonathan Turleywrote last week, “one can easily foresee this or a future president insisting that an alleged terrorism conspiracy is a form of ‘combat’.”

The administration’s outrageous response to the most serious Constitutional question of all — when a government can kill its own citizens — is clear evidence of an executive branch out of control.

Many of the drafters of the Constitution envisioned the presidency as an office with very limited powers, but even the most dedicated proponents of a strong presidency at the time would be shocked to see the concentration of power in the modern presidency.

Today the presidency is viewed as the center of the federal government, with each successive administration expanding the power of the executive at the expense of Congress and the people.

Ironically, some of the worst offenders are those who campaigned promising to reverse the power grabs of their predecessors. For example, candidate George W. Bush campaigned on a “humble foreign policy,” but as president he attacked Iraq based on his own administration’s lies and claimed the right to indefinitely detain anyone he deemed an “enemy combatant.”

Candidate Barack Obama promised he would reverse his predecessor’s constitutional abuses. Yet not only has President Obama not closed Guantanamo Bay, he reportedly holds weekly meetings in the oval office to draw up “kills lists,” uses drones against American citizens, and routinely sends the US military into combat abroad without even consulting Congress!

The modern use of “executive orders” also usurps the lawmaking function of Congress. The most notable recent example was President Obama’s January series of executive orders on gun control, but unfortunately there are countless other examples over the last several administrations.

Ultimately, the fault for the expansion of presidential power lies with Congress. Too many members of Congress are all too eager to avoid responsibility for controversial actions, preferring to “pass the buck” to the president. For example, Congress no longer declares war, but instead passes an “authorization of force” telling the president he can go to war when or if he wants!

On domestic policy, Congress passes large, vaguely-worded pieces of legislation and leaves it to the president and the bureaucrats to fill in the details. Many members of Congress score points with their constituents railing against “the faceless D.C. bureaucrats” while never mentioning that they voted for the law that gave the bureaucrats their power!

Last week, a group of “fiscally conservative” senators even tried to give President Obama more authority over spending as a part of sequester replacement that would have “required” Obama to decide where to reduce spending and where to increase it. They want to restrain the president by giving him more authority?

Growth of executive power is a threat to liberty. Fortunately, Congress can restrain the executive simply by exercising its constitutional powers. The American people must demand that Congress stop passing the buck on its foreign and domestic policy responsibilities. If the people care about liberty, they will demand their representative stand up to the imperial president. Let us hope last week’s filibuster will give Congress the backbone it needs to do its job.

 





“one can easily foresee this or a future president insisting that an alleged terrorism conspiracy is a form of ‘combat’.”


Yeah sure. Also all the law enforcers will be combined into one building:



Utter, utter sensationalist bullshit.

"he reportedly holds weekly meetings in the oval office to draw up “kills lists,” uses drones against American citizens, and routinely sends the US military into combat abroad without even consulting Congress!"



A video version, might be neat in the OP. ;) 



Another video on who qualifies as a terrorist according to the FBI. 



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he doesnt believe in self government. he said so himself. how can he possibly understand what its like to be incharge of a president.. of a congress.. sheriff... ( like real hiring managers should.)

see) holding your elected Federal and State employees accountable beyond their wildest imaginations.

Calling them out for having a business on the side. For taking long lunches with your competitors. For using the company car and copy machine for their personal use without telling you. For improper conduct that would violate any employee ethics manual. For noticing that they exempt themselves from it, but not you, the boss.

For doing things that they prefer TO DO TO YOU INSTEAD, AND TO YOU ONLY, AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Matzy doesn't want that responsibillity. Based on his exagerations of our cause, I say he doesn't want it for us either..



snyps said:
he doesnt believe in self government. he said so himself. how can he possibly understand what its like to be incharge of a president.. of a congress.. sheriff... ( like real hiring managers should.)

see) holding your elected Federal and State employees accountable beyond their wildest imaginations.

Calling them out for having a business on the side. For taking long lunches with your competitors. For using the company car and copy machine for their personal use without telling you. For improper conduct that would violate any employee ethics manual. For noticing that they exempt themselves from it, but not you, the boss.

For doing things that they prefer TO DO TO YOU INSTEAD, AND TO YOU ONLY, AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Matzy doesn't want that responsibillity. Based on his exagerations of our cause, I say he doesn't want it for us either..

Don't worry though. Liberty is is becoming popular again, after the wreck of interventionism and statism that we've had for 70 years. I'm not going to become too optimistic, but I do hope to see another roaring 20's to expand on the one we had the previous century by presidents who said to themselves; "the best thing I can do for my nation is to give them the freedom to make something of themselves." 

Coolidge said it well. 



I posted the vids in the OP.  and like Mai said earlier...


mai said:

But what makes it interesting for me ... the way people, whom I call American patriots, have come in recent decade. From "No to Z.O.G." (written on a T-shirt below) kind of people to actually someone with an ability to think (not that they got smarter, but people who are smarter have became American patriots).


There is a lot to be happy about.



And for the Philosophically inclined.. (and I don't mean freshman PHI 109 students like Mr. err-ma-gerrrd u berk-rrerrles-erv-inferrnce)

this is an excellent essay from a 1869 philosopher named John Stuart Mills

 

The struggle between Liberty and Authority is the most conspicuous feature in the portions of history with which we are earliest familiar, particularly in that of Greece, Rome, and England. But in old times this contest was between subjects, or some classes of subjects, and the Government. By liberty, was meant protection against the tyranny of the political rulers. The rulers were conceived (except in some of the popular governments of Greece) as in a necessarily antagonistic position to the people whom they ruled. They consisted of a governing One, or a governing tribe or caste, who derived their authority from inheritance or conquest, who, at all events, did not hold it at the pleasure of the governed, and whose supremacy men did not venture, perhaps did not desire, to contest, whatever precautions might be taken against its oppressive exercise. Their power was regarded as necessary, but also as highly dangerous; as a weapon which they would attempt to use against their subjects, no less than against external enemies. To prevent the weaker members of the community from being preyed on by innumerable vultures, it was needful that there should be an animal of prey stronger than the rest, commissioned to keep them down. But as the king of the vultures would be no less bent upon preying upon the flock than any of the minor harpies, it was indispensable to be in a perpetual attitude of defence against his beak and claws. The aim, therefore, of patriots was to set limits to the power which the ruler should be suffered to exercise over the community; and this limitation was what they meant by liberty. It was attempted in two ways. First, by obtaining a recognition of certain immunities, called political liberties or rights, which it was to be regarded as a breach of duty in the ruler to infringe, and which, if he did infringe, specific resistance, or general rebellion, was held to be justifiable. A second, and generally a later expedient, was the establishment of constitutional checks, by which the consent of the community, or of a body of some sort, supposed to represent its interests, was made a necessary condition to some of the more important acts of the governing power. To the first of these modes of limitation, the ruling power, in most European countries, was compelled, more or less, to submit. It was not so with the second; and, to attain this, or when already in some degree possessed, to attain it more completely, became everywhere the principal object of the lovers of liberty. And so long as mankind were content to combat one enemy by another, and to be ruled by a master, on condition of being guaranteed more or less efficaciously against his tyranny, they did not carry their aspirations beyond this point.

 

http://www.bartleby.com/130/



snyps said:
he doesnt believe in self government. he said so himself. how can he possibly understand what its like to be incharge of a president.. of a congress.. sheriff... ( like real hiring managers should.)

see) holding your elected Federal and State employees accountable beyond their wildest imaginations.

Calling them out for having a business on the side. For taking long lunches with your competitors. For using the company car and copy machine for their personal use without telling you. For improper conduct that would violate any employee ethics manual. For noticing that they exempt themselves from it, but not you, the boss.

For doing things that they prefer TO DO TO YOU INSTEAD, AND TO YOU ONLY, AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Matzy doesn't want that responsibillity. Based on his exagerations of our cause, I say he doesn't want it for us either..

I never claimed that. Thinking the US is going to start using hellfire missiles on it's own soil has no foundings in reality whatsoever. You both will argue against propoganda and yet have bought into this sensationlist bullshit without hessitation.