spaceguy said:
sc94597 said:
Hey guys - arguing with him seems quite useless. In other countries there is some mystical blind devotion to the state by the people. Likely because there has been vast influence by mobocratic populist parties and statist groups in general. They believe that they can change their governments through the electoral process, and that should be the main role of the people. We - in the United States - on the other hand believe strongly in individual liberties and a restrictive government, and this is true as a population - excluding certain statist extremists. That is why Rand Paul received the massive support he had received. So when he [the foreigner] is criticizing what he thinks to be Republican values (which was ironically the liberal position during the Bush era) he's really criticizing the values of a large portion of one of the leading Western federations in history.
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I agree with Rand Paul on this one but name one country where libertarian ideas have worked and from what I've seen it has never has and has ended in complete disaster. There is a middle ground. Some issues he's great, some he is a complete idiot.
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Well Germany right now has one of the most successful economies in the world right now despite having to pretty much hold the entirity of Europe on it's back.
It's worth noting the main economic influence of libretarinism economics was Hayek. Who's idea wasn't "Complete anarchy" but simply... "Government makes simple and fair rules and regulations, and then stays out of the way."
In general, countries who have followed that advice have been the ones who have succeded economically.
The problem with government spending is... it doesn't really promote growth, because everybody knows that said spending is being caused by the government, and will stop and some point, and need to be paid for later on. Usually in the form of higher taxes.
It's the same reason the Bush and Obama tax cuts were failures. Most people saved that money because they know their tax savings won't be around forever.
This is partly why Keynsian economics was discarded by pretty much all economists.
Including Keynes for that matter. If you knew what Keynes generally suggested for a stimulus, you'd consider him a huge poor hating rightwinger. (to be fair, some biographers have suggested Keynes did have a lot of contempt for the poor.)
Keynes essentially wanted stimulus specifically geared towards getting the rich to spend their money and create investments.
You are right in that growth gets you out of a recession. The only problem is... government spending doesn't actually create growth.