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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - RUMOR: Activision Upset at Black Ops II Wii U Sales, Says Nintendo Fans Are All Talk

the_dengle said:

Sony went from 150 mil with PS2 to 75 mil with PS3 -- their next console will be a 50% drop, too! PS4 will sell under 40 million. 


I'm not trying to single you out for this because I know Dodece started these "trend of downward sales" comparisons but I just have to say...

I've seen multiple people use the 150m v PS3 figure.  It's a rubbish comparison to make because ~ 50m of those PS2 sales came after PS3 released.  Either use the figure for PS2 at the launch of PS3 (i.e. ~100 million) or don't make the comparison until the PS3 has stopped production.  It's still a downward trend, no doubt, but less extreme than people like to make it out to be.

Sorry, just a pet peeve.



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the_dengle said:
Dodece said:
the_dengle said:
Dodece said:
[Wii U could sell 14 million units]

Hahahahahahaha. Sorry, couldn't make it past that part.

What an elegant proof of my point. Just remember that pride commeth before the fall.

Your logic is simply too basic. It takes no actual factors into account, simply applying some old pattern you saw to a new situation and spitting out a number. Sony went from 150 mil with PS2 to 75 mil with PS3 -- their next console will be a 50% drop, too! PS4 will sell under 40 million. Microsoft went from 25 million to 75 million, tripling their sales. Next XBox will sell 225 million, right???


Theres no way the PS4 will get that low with great online support and equal multiplat level with Microsoft. It's going to come down to exclusives for both consoles and truly will be about who wins America. If Sony can get half of Microsofts numbers in America and Japan to raise their numbers exponentially this will be a win for Sony. 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Which gen since the SNES has Nintendo ever followed suit with devs on specs?

N64 Era= Refused to make the jump to CD's and was overlooked by devs because competent competition arrived and they were free to expand their games.

Gamecube Era= Refused to make the jump to DVD's which could hold 8GB of information and stuck with minidisc that could hold a fraction of it. Technically the console was capable of better graphics but lacked the space needed to make the bigger and better games that devs pushing the console wanted to make. That and it was clear there was no love lost from how Nintendo dealt with third parties during the SNES and they realized Sony and now their new relationship with Nintendo was freer for them to create their own games.

Wii= Made a severely underpowered console that gave devs far less power and forced devs to use Nintendos short lived gimmick rather than making what they felt was right for the console. Some tried to make a good game and failed, few succeeded in trying to make a good game with the Wii and the rest played it smart and went for the cash grab once they realized it was gimmick.

Wii U= Nintendos first true attempt to win back the core gamers and they came a gen late in terms of tech. The media told Reggie about rumors of the other consoles having higher specs and what did Reggie say? "Lets wait and see" and game over again for Nintendo.

No one is to blame but Nintendo for the lack of third party interest of their console for nearly 20 years.

Nintendo gamers have to pay the piper if they refuse to pay for the COD game though. It was there and still sold dismally.

Third parties still supported the PS3 with its notoriously developer-unfriendly architecture,proving that with proper investment you can build an ecosystem in spite of hardware obstacles. Now if studios have put similar efforts into building an ecosystem on Wii, things would have been very different for both that console and Wii U. But no, they gave Wii gamers rail shooters instead of proper Resident Evil/Dead Space games.

People aren't just going to forget a whole generation of learned aversion; third parties have to show that they're not going to do the same thing this time.


Sony still had a wayyyyyy better relationship with third parties than Nintendo ever had with the PS3, which is why their longevity stayed on par with the Xbox even though they put out more first party than any of the competition. You did pay attention to the conference correct? Sony literally appologized and created the first ever western made Playstation not made by Ken Kutaragi. This Playstation will have a western twist while enjoying the best of the east and west in games. Thats like a match made in heaven...think about it. Why should developers go out of their way to make things for Nintendo when Nintendo should be preparing specs for their collective imaginations rather than just their own selfish family oriented desires? Why not something where everyone wins? Can you truly answer that? As for the PS3 getting dev support spite the issues, it basically sold on par with the Xbox throughout in multiplats especially as the years went by.

You could flip the question and ask why Nintendo should cater to those who want to push a bazillion polygons and shaders to selfishly satisfy their "imagination" instead of going with a more cost-effective solution that allows for backwards compatibility while providing enough power for both experiences proven in the PS360 field and new possibilities for their first party software. Can you imagine the price tag on the Wii U if it had PS4's specs AND the tablet controller?



S.T.A.G.E. said:


Theres no way the PS4 will get that low with great online support and equal multiplat level with Microsoft. It's going to come down to exclusives for both consoles and truly will be about who wins America. If Sony can get half of Microsofts numbers in America and Japan to raise their numbers exponentially this will be a win for Sony. 

Yes, guys, I was being completely sarcastic to show how silly his logic was.



curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Which gen since the SNES has Nintendo ever followed suit with devs on specs?

N64 Era= Refused to make the jump to CD's and was overlooked by devs because competent competition arrived and they were free to expand their games.

Gamecube Era= Refused to make the jump to DVD's which could hold 8GB of information and stuck with minidisc that could hold a fraction of it. Technically the console was capable of better graphics but lacked the space needed to make the bigger and better games that devs pushing the console wanted to make. That and it was clear there was no love lost from how Nintendo dealt with third parties during the SNES and they realized Sony and now their new relationship with Nintendo was freer for them to create their own games.

Wii= Made a severely underpowered console that gave devs far less power and forced devs to use Nintendos short lived gimmick rather than making what they felt was right for the console. Some tried to make a good game and failed, few succeeded in trying to make a good game with the Wii and the rest played it smart and went for the cash grab once they realized it was gimmick.

Wii U= Nintendos first true attempt to win back the core gamers and they came a gen late in terms of tech. The media told Reggie about rumors of the other consoles having higher specs and what did Reggie say? "Lets wait and see" and game over again for Nintendo.

No one is to blame but Nintendo for the lack of third party interest of their console for nearly 20 years.

Nintendo gamers have to pay the piper if they refuse to pay for the COD game though. It was there and still sold dismally.

Third parties still supported the PS3 with its notoriously developer-unfriendly architecture,proving that with proper investment you can build an ecosystem in spite of hardware obstacles. Now if studios have put similar efforts into building an ecosystem on Wii, things would have been very different for both that console and Wii U. But no, they gave Wii gamers rail shooters instead of proper Resident Evil/Dead Space games.

People aren't just going to forget a whole generation of learned aversion; third parties have to show that they're not going to do the same thing this time.


Sony still had a wayyyyyy better relationship with third parties than Nintendo ever had with the PS3, which is why their longevity stayed on par with the Xbox even though they put out more first party than any of the competition. You did pay attention to the conference correct? Sony literally appologized and created the first ever western made Playstation not made by Ken Kutaragi. This Playstation will have a western twist while enjoying the best of the east and west in games. Thats like a match made in heaven...think about it. Why should developers go out of their way to make things for Nintendo when Nintendo should be preparing specs for their collective imaginations rather than just their own selfish family oriented desires? Why not something where everyone wins? Can you truly answer that? As for the PS3 getting dev support spite the issues, it basically sold on par with the Xbox throughout in multiplats especially as the years went by.

You could flip the question and ask why Nintendo should cater to those who want to push a bazillion polygons and shaders to selfishly satisfy their "imagination" instead of going with a more cost-effective solution that allows for backwards compatibility while providing enough power for both experiences proven in the PS360 field and new possibilities for their first party software. Can you imagine the price tag on the Wii U if it had PS4's specs AND the tablet controller?


Well I know the answer, Nintendo has NEVER truly catered themselves to devs. Devs always answered to them until the Playstation arrived.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Which gen since the SNES has Nintendo ever followed suit with devs on specs?

N64 Era= Refused to make the jump to CD's and was overlooked by devs because competent competition arrived and they were free to expand their games.

Gamecube Era= Refused to make the jump to DVD's which could hold 8GB of information and stuck with minidisc that could hold a fraction of it. Technically the console was capable of better graphics but lacked the space needed to make the bigger and better games that devs pushing the console wanted to make. That and it was clear there was no love lost from how Nintendo dealt with third parties during the SNES and they realized Sony and now their new relationship with Nintendo was freer for them to create their own games.

Wii= Made a severely underpowered console that gave devs far less power and forced devs to use Nintendos short lived gimmick rather than making what they felt was right for the console. Some tried to make a good game and failed, few succeeded in trying to make a good game with the Wii and the rest played it smart and went for the cash grab once they realized it was gimmick.

Wii U= Nintendos first true attempt to win back the core gamers and they came a gen late in terms of tech. The media told Reggie about rumors of the other consoles having higher specs and what did Reggie say? "Lets wait and see" and game over again for Nintendo.

No one is to blame but Nintendo for the lack of third party interest of their console for nearly 20 years.

Nintendo gamers have to pay the piper if they refuse to pay for the COD game though. It was there and still sold dismally.

Third parties still supported the PS3 with its notoriously developer-unfriendly architecture,proving that with proper investment you can build an ecosystem in spite of hardware obstacles. Now if studios have put similar efforts into building an ecosystem on Wii, things would have been very different for both that console and Wii U. But no, they gave Wii gamers rail shooters instead of proper Resident Evil/Dead Space games.

People aren't just going to forget a whole generation of learned aversion; third parties have to show that they're not going to do the same thing this time.


Sony still had a wayyyyyy better relationship with third parties than Nintendo ever had with the PS3, which is why their longevity stayed on par with the Xbox even though they put out more first party than any of the competition. You did pay attention to the conference correct? Sony literally appologized and created the first ever western made Playstation not made by Ken Kutaragi. This Playstation will have a western twist while enjoying the best of the east and west in games. Thats like a match made in heaven...think about it. Why should developers go out of their way to make things for Nintendo when Nintendo should be preparing specs for their collective imaginations rather than just their own selfish family oriented desires? Why not something where everyone wins? Can you truly answer that? As for the PS3 getting dev support spite the issues, it basically sold on par with the Xbox throughout in multiplats especially as the years went by.

You could flip the question and ask why Nintendo should cater to those who want to push a bazillion polygons and shaders to selfishly satisfy their "imagination" instead of going with a more cost-effective solution that allows for backwards compatibility while providing enough power for both experiences proven in the PS360 field and new possibilities for their first party software. Can you imagine the price tag on the Wii U if it had PS4's specs AND the tablet controller?


Well I know the answer, Nintendo has NEVER truly catered themselves to devs. Devs always answered to them until the Playstation arrived.

The PS2 and PS3 weren't catered to devs either.



Alright, let's settle this. Nintendo caters to third parties; they just don't cater to the same third parties as Microsoft and Sony. Likewise, third-party games sell well on Nintendo consoles; just not the same third-party games as the ones that sell on Microsoft and Sony consoles.

Let's look at the Black Ops II example, without outright assigning blame to anyone, because that will get us nowhere (it will get us 21 pages deep into nowhere to be specific).

So, who owns a Wii U? To answer this we have to look at the video game market as a whole. Many people own multiple consoles. Many Wii owners own either a PS3 or a 360, or both. The percentage of Wii owners who owned another 7th-gen console likely increased throughout the gen, especially in the last couple of years as Wii support faded. Now, where are Call of Duty fans? There were a decent number on the Wii at the start of the gen, but as time passed, Wii COD sales declined and PS3 & 360 COD sales grew. Perhaps this reflects the Wii owners who, between COD releases, bought another console and decided to start playing COD on that console, instead. There were a number of reasons to make this change.

Now, who has bought a Wii U so far? More to the point, why would anyone buy a Wii U right now? Very few gamers will buy a Wii U for Call of Duty; if you are a COD fan, you must already own a console on which you play COD. Presently the biggest reason to buy a Wii U is New Super Mario Bros. You may buy one for Nintendo Land, or for ZombiU, or in anticipation of a future release, but for now let's go with Mario.

If Mario fans are the only people buying a Wii U right now, because Mario is currently the only reason to buy a Wii U, then the potential sales of Call of Duty on Wii U are limited to the number of people who play both Mario and Call of Duty. Or, more accurately, they are limited to the percentage of Mario fans who play Call of Duty multiplied by the number of people who have bought a Wii U -- because not all 20 million+ Mario fans have bought a Wii U already.

We can guess that this leaves us with a very small potential audience for Call of Duty on Wii U -- presently. There are two ways to remedy this: Nintendo can make exclusive games or deals to convince Call of Duty fans to migrate to Wii U. This is a risky move that might not work, might not benefit Nintendo at all.

The other potential remedy is for Activision to market their game better, to convert current Wii U owners into potential customers interested in Call of Duty. You know, convince people to take an interest in and buy your game. Build a fanbase the old fashioned way. Activision has basically stepped back over 10 years to a time when the masses didn't care about Call of Duty, and they didn't know how to react to the fact that their game isn't selling itself on its name alone in this instance.

I'm not "blaming" Activision for Call of Duty's low sales. Just saying they should have expected this -- and that at this juncture, they can either complain about it, or take steps to fix it. Nintendo can also take steps, but they are not obligated to, and they may not be willing to, and their "fix" would be a temporary one at best and an utter failure at worst. The fate of Call of Duty sales on Nintendo consoles is in Activision's hands, where it belongs.



Heavenly_King said:

I think he was referring this gen.


Nope, I'm fairly certain he used the term "in gaming history", not "this past gen".



curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Which gen since the SNES has Nintendo ever followed suit with devs on specs?

N64 Era= Refused to make the jump to CD's and was overlooked by devs because competent competition arrived and they were free to expand their games.

Gamecube Era= Refused to make the jump to DVD's which could hold 8GB of information and stuck with minidisc that could hold a fraction of it. Technically the console was capable of better graphics but lacked the space needed to make the bigger and better games that devs pushing the console wanted to make. That and it was clear there was no love lost from how Nintendo dealt with third parties during the SNES and they realized Sony and now their new relationship with Nintendo was freer for them to create their own games.

Wii= Made a severely underpowered console that gave devs far less power and forced devs to use Nintendos short lived gimmick rather than making what they felt was right for the console. Some tried to make a good game and failed, few succeeded in trying to make a good game with the Wii and the rest played it smart and went for the cash grab once they realized it was gimmick.

Wii U= Nintendos first true attempt to win back the core gamers and they came a gen late in terms of tech. The media told Reggie about rumors of the other consoles having higher specs and what did Reggie say? "Lets wait and see" and game over again for Nintendo.

No one is to blame but Nintendo for the lack of third party interest of their console for nearly 20 years.

Nintendo gamers have to pay the piper if they refuse to pay for the COD game though. It was there and still sold dismally.

Third parties still supported the PS3 with its notoriously developer-unfriendly architecture,proving that with proper investment you can build an ecosystem in spite of hardware obstacles. Now if studios have put similar efforts into building an ecosystem on Wii, things would have been very different for both that console and Wii U. But no, they gave Wii gamers rail shooters instead of proper Resident Evil/Dead Space games.

People aren't just going to forget a whole generation of learned aversion; third parties have to show that they're not going to do the same thing this time.


Sony still had a wayyyyyy better relationship with third parties than Nintendo ever had with the PS3, which is why their longevity stayed on par with the Xbox even though they put out more first party than any of the competition. You did pay attention to the conference correct? Sony literally appologized and created the first ever western made Playstation not made by Ken Kutaragi. This Playstation will have a western twist while enjoying the best of the east and west in games. Thats like a match made in heaven...think about it. Why should developers go out of their way to make things for Nintendo when Nintendo should be preparing specs for their collective imaginations rather than just their own selfish family oriented desires? Why not something where everyone wins? Can you truly answer that? As for the PS3 getting dev support spite the issues, it basically sold on par with the Xbox throughout in multiplats especially as the years went by.

You could flip the question and ask why Nintendo should cater to those who want to push a bazillion polygons and shaders to selfishly satisfy their "imagination" instead of going with a more cost-effective solution that allows for backwards compatibility while providing enough power for both experiences proven in the PS360 field and new possibilities for their first party software. Can you imagine the price tag on the Wii U if it had PS4's specs AND the tablet controller?


Well I know the answer, Nintendo has NEVER truly catered themselves to devs. Devs always answered to them until the Playstation arrived.

The PS2 and PS3 weren't catered to devs either.


The PS2 catered to developers and expanded the disc space they could use. Kutaragi got cocky and used the cell (which also spiked up the PS3 price) which everyone expected to be awesome but turned out to be so wrong. Developers were psyched for it because on paper it was more powerful than the 360 if harnessed but actually it only helped exclusives and held back multiplats because games must be specifically made for the cell to work without a hitch. If you saw it as it was, it was misfire which was actually supposed to be a match made in heaven. They've finally succeeded and made all appologies in it with the PS4 by letting a western designer work out the specs. The PS4 will be the console that both Sony and third parties want it to be. Remember Microsoft and Sony were specifically asked by certain companies to use a specific amount of ram and other specs and Sony followed through. No one asked Nintendo because Nintendo never...ever...listens.



the_dengle said:
Dodece said:
the_dengle said:
Dodece said:
[Wii U could sell 14 million units]

Hahahahahahaha. Sorry, couldn't make it past that part.

What an elegant proof of my point. Just remember that pride commeth before the fall.

Your logic is simply too basic. It takes no actual factors into account, simply applying some old pattern you saw to a new situation and spitting out a number. Sony went from 150 mil with PS2 to 75 mil with PS3 -- their next console will be a 50% drop, too! PS4 will sell under 40 million. Microsoft went from 25 million to 75 million, tripling their sales. Next XBox will sell 225 million, right???

I used four distinct data points covering a span of almost twenty five years. That is more then sufficient to establish that there is a existing trend, and to factor out short term anomalies. Your problem isn't with the methodology. You just don't like the implications. Which is that Nintendo is exhausting its core player base over the coarse of time. You could argue that the trend will abate as compared to those four consoles if you could provide proof that Nintendo has shifted from its core philosophy. As compared to those consoles, but let us just be honest Nintendo is doing business as per the usual.

You have plenty of annecdotal evidence that what I am saying is actually the truth. Based solely on the trends that have come to pass in these forums over the past five years. I have watched the Nintendo fan base literally atrophy and dwindle. So many have switched allegiances during the past generation, relegated their Nintendo console to secondary status, and have just plain thrown in the towel. 

The only joke is fourteen million may actually be overly generous on my part. I am thinking that laughter on your part is the nervous kind. That is right just keep dismissing it, and hopefully it will all go away.