happydolphin said: TheJimbo1234 said: Metroid was there first. Hahaha, what story exactly? And which one? To even try to argue against Team ico shows you haven't played SotC or Ico and don't know what you're on about. SotC barely had a story (in game at least), it's the same for Super Metroid. Both games are all about the story you make it to be. That's what ambiance is, it isn't aesthetics, its a certain type of persentation where the player feels the environment he's in. @FOX. I'd have to say that the new Nintendo is out of touch with the Old Nintendo by far.

Thanks, I now don't need to say anymore as I can rest my case for those in favour of Nintendo as, apparently, SotC "bareley had a story". Oh, and get your words right. Its esthetics/aesthetics, not ambiance - just google them.

JinxRake said: I'm not one to judge Nintendo but I can say that I'm not going towards them anytime soon. I have nothing against them really, I haven't actually played most of the Nintendo games outside of NES and SNES (and those were on my PSP in most part), but I find it hard to shell out money to a company that seems so very unwilling to take risks anymore. I can believe that the new Mario Games are great, or the new Zeldas or Metroids....but they are just the new same old franchise. Nintendo doesn't seem to want to actually do something new, to create new characters, new worlds, new concepts that are more than hardware. Sony however seem to be ready to back just about any piece of rubbish. Lair is a terrible game, but at least it was a new attempt at something. Folklore is pretty fun. Flower and Journey are beyond words in my opinion. Heavy Rain was an interesting experiment, which for me succeeded in some aspects. Uncharted has its pros and cons, but it's a series that seems to be growing beyond just its looks. inFamous 2 is one of my favorite games of this generation. Demons' Souls deserves an actual sequel, a blood relative rather than a spiritual one, as it was in some regards beyond Dark Souls. Heavenly Sword was a good transition between the older PS2 sensibilities and what would become the new gen, with some very good points in its favor. Little Big Planet created something that I had not expected to see on consoles any time soon The Last of Us has potential to be something great this spring. Unfinished Swan and Papo & Yo are two other games I have a vested interest in and believe they have a shot at impressing me. Also Gravity Rush is one of the first games I'm buying for a Vita this spring. Where Nintendo have a constant trickle of good titles - judging by reviews - that are mostly centered around well established franchises, Sony seems to always bet on some project or another that may or may not pan out. A lot of people seem to confuse interest with sheep mentality when us fans choose to try out and, consequentially, praise something new from Sony. But at least it's always something new that they back up, one way or another. Sometimes it's too little, if at all, but hopefully that will change in the future. I may buy Wii U sometime. I doubt I'll have reason to take the PS2 and PS3 down from my rafters, but it may happen. I just wish Nintendo would trust themselves more with what they've created, enough to actually risk creating a new monster. Would it be so bad for Mario to retire in the wake of a new mascot, one with fresh ideas and a whole new world to expose? I doubt it.

There are two important points about Nintendo's software innovation.

First, they innovate within their franchises (for the most part). For example, Super Mario Galaxy is a whole new experience from Super Mario Sunshine (New concept). In Zelda, it's a whole new world with only a few recurring characters but most characters are all new, as are the worlds. Kinda like Final-fantasy (chocobos and aeons are recurrent for instance).

As for new IPs altogether, it's true that Sony is more aggressive on those in the core market. However Nintendo does have a small share of new IPs in the core market like Another Code, Pandora's Tower and Endless Ocean (in comparison to say ecco the dolphin). They just don't market them as much as Sony does, and that's their business strategy and it makes money. If you really cared about the new IPs you'd play them regardless of marketing. Another thing is that they have a slew of new IPs in the casual space, more than can be counted, on both the DS and the Wii.

So, there's some nuance to give to your post.

Good choice, Nintendo IS video games. Super Mario Galaxy wowed me with the new gameplay style, using gravity in a 3d environment the way they did is genius. Every new level in that game surprised me.

VGKing said: Think of any PS3 exclusive and ask yourself, why is this game so popular? Why did it sell so well?

DOES NOT COMPUTE

TheJimbo1234 said: happydolphin said: SotC barely had a story (in game at least), it's the same for Super Metroid. Both games are all about the story you make it to be. That's what ambiance is, it isn't aesthetics, its a certain type of persentation where the player feels the environment he's in. @FOX. I'd have to say that the new Nintendo is out of touch with the Old Nintendo by far. Thanks, I now don't need to say anymore as I can rest my case for those in favour of Nintendo as, apparently, SotC "bareley had a story". Oh, and get your words right. Its esthetics/aesthetics, not ambiance - just google them.

I happen to love SotC you just don't know what you're talking about. 8 Colossi, prior and between fighting each one, a vague intro to each colossus, with a minor cutscene prior to the end of the game with (iirc) no words spoken. Not much for a story. In terms of Chozo lore MP has much much more background story.

As for ambiance, it's ambiance, not aesthetics.

am·bi·ance also am·bi·ence ( m b - ns, ä -byä s ). n. The special atmosphere or mood created by a particular environment: "The noir ambience is dominated by ...

happydolphin said: TheJimbo1234 said: Metroid was there first. Hahaha, what story exactly? And which one? To even try to argue against Team ico shows you haven't played SotC or Ico and don't know what you're on about. SotC barely had a story (in game at least), it's the same for Super Metroid. Both games are all about the story you make it to be. That's what ambiance is, it isn't aesthetics, its a certain type of persentation where the player feels the environment he's in. @FOX. I'd have to say that the new Nintendo is out of touch with the Old Nintendo by far.

I was putting my statement in the context of old, active, popular franchises.

I think any other context warrants a different discussion thread. At any rate I would agree with you, but I don't think of it as a negative.

JinxRake said: I'm not one to judge Nintendo but I can say that I'm not going towards them anytime soon. I have nothing against them really, I haven't actually played most of the Nintendo games outside of NES and SNES (and those were on my PSP in most part), but I find it hard to shell out money to a company that seems so very unwilling to take risks anymore. I can believe that the new Mario Games are great, or the new Zeldas or Metroids....but they are just the new same old franchise. Nintendo doesn't seem to want to actually do something new, to create new characters, new worlds, new concepts that are more than hardware. Sony however seem to be ready to back just about any piece of rubbish. Lair is a terrible game, but at least it was a new attempt at something. Folklore is pretty fun. Flower and Journey are beyond words in my opinion. Heavy Rain was an interesting experiment, which for me succeeded in some aspects. Uncharted has its pros and cons, but it's a series that seems to be growing beyond just its looks. inFamous 2 is one of my favorite games of this generation. Demons' Souls deserves an actual sequel, a blood relative rather than a spiritual one, as it was in some regards beyond Dark Souls. Heavenly Sword was a good transition between the older PS2 sensibilities and what would become the new gen, with some very good points in its favor. Little Big Planet created something that I had not expected to see on consoles any time soon The Last of Us has potential to be something great this spring. Unfinished Swan and Papo & Yo are two other games I have a vested interest in and believe they have a shot at impressing me. Also Gravity Rush is one of the first games I'm buying for a Vita this spring. Where Nintendo have a constant trickle of good titles - judging by reviews - that are mostly centered around well established franchises, Sony seems to always bet on some project or another that may or may not pan out. A lot of people seem to confuse interest with sheep mentality when us fans choose to try out and, consequentially, praise something new from Sony. But at least it's always something new that they back up, one way or another. Sometimes it's too little, if at all, but hopefully that will change in the future. I may buy Wii U sometime. I doubt I'll have reason to take the PS2 and PS3 down from my rafters, but it may happen. I just wish Nintendo would trust themselves more with what they've created, enough to actually risk creating a new monster. Would it be so bad for Mario to retire in the wake of a new mascot, one with fresh ideas and a whole new world to expose? I doubt it.

Hmm well yeaa i sometimes don't understand how some of Nintendo's franchises still have survived to this day either. We all know Mario, Zelda and Pokemon still have cause they got a big fanbase and believe it or not DO innovate in their latest games also they always get people's attention. But when it comes to games like Metroid and StarFox i question the fans how they don't ever get tired of the same thing. While i do like these games and respect the legacy they left behind these 2 games usually try nothing new Metroid Prime was a big and refreshing change from Super Metroid but it still had the same items, powerups, basic non existent story, no character development and they kept going with this with it's sequels. Star Fox is another franchise which i don't understand how fans think that a on rail shooter can survive these days with so many non linear and open world games Star Fox would be unheard of and simply a game stuck in the past.

TheJimbo1234 said: F0X said: TheJimbo1234 said: happydolphin said: TheJimbo1234 said: I'm sorry, but you are trying to say Metroid had more "ambiance" (I think you mean aesthetics ) than Killzone? Well, I don't know what to say to that... By ambiance I mean the way the game is made you feel either tense or adventurous, depending on how the sound effects are made, what kind of music is played, the way the visuals are displayed, whether there are things hiding in the shadows, secret passages, those kinds of things. Metroid is all about that, especially Super Metroid, but Metroid Prime did that pretty well too.   That is the esthetics, and how does Metroid trump that of Shadow of the Colussus, which is universally agreed to be the best game ever made for showing how esthetics can tell the story rather than words. Metroid was there first. Hahaha, what story exactly? And which one? To even try to argue against Team ico shows you haven't played SotC or Ico and don't know what you're on about.

I've played Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. They're two of my favorite PS2 games.

I'm afraid you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. I hope you do realize that HappyD wasn't comparing Metroid to SotC or Ico to begin with. His actual comparison between Metroid Prime (specifically) and Killzone makes a lot more sense given how they are both in first-person.

Eh, Sony's variety is what keeps me right at home. Sure, many of the games are heavy on graphics but a lot of them contain great storytelling, pace, gameplay, etc etc. Uncharted, Heavy Rain, LBP, All-Stars, InFamous, God of War, Rachet and Clank, MotorStorm. Each games has their own style of graphics and go through all the genres possible where the gameplay works great, with great stories to boot (except for MotorStorm's and All-Stars' story) To each their own. Nintendo makes great games, its just the consoles are so bleh. To me, super nintendo is still their best console. So many awesome games and RPGs galore. Their new type of "innovation" does not feel like its going anywhere.

happydolphin said: JinxRake said: There are two important points about Nintendo's software innovation. First, they innovate within their franchises (for the most part). For example, Super Mario Galaxy is a whole new experience from Super Mario Sunshine (New concept). In Zelda, it's a whole new world with only a few recurring characters but most characters are all new, as are the worlds. Kinda like Final-fantasy (chocobos and aeons are recurrent for instance). As for new IPs altogether, it's true that Sony is more aggressive on those in the core market. However Nintendo does have a small share of new IPs in the core market like Another Code, Pandora's Tower and Endless Ocean (in comparison to say ecco the dolphin). They just don't market them as much as Sony does, and that's their business strategy and it makes money. If you really cared about the new IPs you'd play them regardless of marketing. Another thing is that they have a slew of new IPs in the casual space, more than can be counted, on both the DS and the Wii. So, there's some nuance to give to your post.

I actually wanted to touch on the DS a bit. Got one for my girlfriend a while back, followed by a 3DS last Christmas. That little console has A LOT of stuff on it, good games and rubbish ones. She basically fell in love with the Phoenix Wright series and I can't blame her. From what I've seen it's a great game, with a lot of great ideas in it. Why not get MORE games like that on the large console? With proper exposure, proper marketing, a real push. I'm not someone that follows gaming news obsessively, but I'm not ignorant either. That being said, I never heard of Another Code or Endless Ocean until now...actually I lie, Endless Ocean now seems familiar from a while back. But Nintendo does not seem to care to market those games. Always Mario and Zelda...it's a bit tiring. I didn't say that there is a complete lack of innovation from them. Mario Galaxy is a good example...but it begs the question of "Why wasn't this a NEW franchise?" instead of just having the Mario name stapled to it. Was Nintendo afraid it would bomb if it would not have been named Mario? Again, little faith in my opinion. There are many companies afraid of creating new IPs this gen - Activision for one, whom got too scared of dropping the Call of Duty name from Modern Warfare -, but I think Nintendo are the guiltiest of all. As an exercise, I ask: would Okami have been better or worse if it would have been named Zelda: Legend of the Wolf Goddess? There are, of course, ups and downs to the strategy that Nintendo uses. May be for the better like this, may not be. But I for one would love to see a new platformer fully acknowledged and supported by Nintendo, that does not bear an old name. Heck, I'd hate for the characters of The Wheel of time, Lankhmar, Malazan: Book of the fallen and A song of ice and fire to be all Aragorns, Frodos and Legolases. May just be me though. Edit: My line breaks seem to be gone. Too tired to fix it now. Sorry for the clutter. Edit #2: A problem that is technical for me and Nintendo. A while back I misplaced the 3DS charger. You know it has a peculiar shape so I tried to track down a new one. I live in Bucharest, the capital of Romania. I have scoured every single hardware store that I could find and lost many hours looking for a damn charger. In the end I did not manage to find one. I managed to find my old one in the end. I don't know if it's Nintendo's fault, or the stores in general, but it grated me pretty bad.