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Forums - Gaming - Is the graphic leap to 8th gen as noticeable as previous leaps?

 

6th-7th vs 7th-8th, how do they compare?

It's a much bigger leap 45 7.17%
 
It's a somewhat bigger leap 47 7.48%
 
It's a similar leap 119 18.95%
 
It's a somewhat smaller leap 202 32.17%
 
It's a much smaller leap 214 34.08%
 
Total:627
HoloDust on 27 February 2013
VGKing said:
HoloDust said:


"My old friends at Epic continued with the sequence/story of their sweet tech demo. Nice to see such destruction happening in the environment. I used to be office mates with one of the guys who is instrumental in putting those demos together and I can imagine the amount of hard work that went into it. The static nature of the current generation of environments has always bothered me. Recent examples such as the new Devil May Cry and the ending of Dead Space 3 have changed that, but at the end of the day, without a unified lighting model and some serious power you’re going to have a lot of pre-baked/faked destruction. Next Next generation (what the fuck are we calling this?) hopefully will change that a bit." Cliffy B

I wouldn't take what Cliffy B says as gospel. Dude is going through some sort of mid-life crisis/depression. He isn't developing any game at the moment and will probably end up doing iOS stuff.

Not sure why would anyone take his opinion as a gospel - still, he is well recognized industry veteran who knows his tech.

On the topic, what bothered me when I watched KZ demo is exactly what's he pointing out - static nature of enviroments that is same as in this gen. I'm not sure how much that will change in next gen, except for maybe few titles (like Red Faction: Guerilla was in this one to a certain degree). What he's talking about actually makes lot of sense. I'm just hoping we won't have to really wait for 5-6 more years and fully voxel based engines to get there.



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VGKing on 27 February 2013
HoloDust said:
VGKing said:
HoloDust said:


"My old friends at Epic continued with the sequence/story of their sweet tech demo. Nice to see such destruction happening in the environment. I used to be office mates with one of the guys who is instrumental in putting those demos together and I can imagine the amount of hard work that went into it. The static nature of the current generation of environments has always bothered me. Recent examples such as the new Devil May Cry and the ending of Dead Space 3 have changed that, but at the end of the day, without a unified lighting model and some serious power you’re going to have a lot of pre-baked/faked destruction. Next Next generation (what the fuck are we calling this?) hopefully will change that a bit." Cliffy B

I wouldn't take what Cliffy B says as gospel. Dude is going through some sort of mid-life crisis/depression. He isn't developing any game at the moment and will probably end up doing iOS stuff.

Not sure why would anyone take his opinion as a gospel - still, he is well recognized industry veteran who knows his tech.

On the topic, what bothered me when I watched KZ demo is exactly what's he pointing out - static nature of enviroments that is same as in this gen. I'm not sure how much that will change in next gen, except for maybe few titles (like Red Faction: Guerilla was in this one to a certain degree). What he's talking about actually makes lot of sense. I'm just hoping we won't have to really wait for 5-6 more years and fully voxel based engines to get there.

For a launch title, you can't expect a AAA shooter with fully destructible environments. That is unrealistic. I think the closes you will get to that dream is Battlefield 4.



Weedlab on 27 February 2013

I think some people are not taking into consideration some variables from both last and current generations. The stronger consoles from last gen didn’t last very long so as a result they didn’t get to realize their potential. I notice most people keep using PS2 graphics as the benchmark, but it was the weakest system of the bunch. Xbox and GC exclusives compared to 360 games launch exclusives should be an interesting comparison (if anybody has already done so then fine no need to go there again).

Also, this gen is by far the longest. If it was cut at 5 years then most of the games people have been using to compare to next gen wouldn’t be there. If the original Xbox and GC had such an extension I’m inclined to think the ‘leap’ wouldn’t be as pronounced, despite the jump in HD.

 

EDIT

 

Just looked at the W101 screens. Some of you are comparing this to Knack? o_O Has to be in jest. The game looks good in motion, but those stills seriously look soooooo 2007/8.



 

Playstation = The Beast from the East

Sony + Nintendo = WIN! PS3 + PSV + PS4 + Wii U + 3DS


Weedlab on 27 February 2013
Michael-5 said:
Weedlab said:
Michael-5 said:

@ the bold. are you inclined to compare Wii U to 8th gen or 7th gen systems

I don't recall people talking about the 360 as an Xbox 1.5 when it released, but I wasn't big on forums back then. I remember when it released, I thought it looked amazing, and the Mad World Gears of War Commercial, that just exploded my head. Looking back though, except for maybe PGR3, launch 360 games weren't that impressive.

So now I understand what you're saying. You're saying that the second wave of PS4/Wii U titles will look better, and then we will be able to see how big of a jump PS4/Wii U really made.

Wii U can't run The Witness? Says who?

I know what you mean about how the next gen is an improvement over this gen. While single animations in KZSF didn't look noticably better then KZ3, that in game rendered town was pretty detailed. To me X looks the same with the huge draw distance, but like many have pointed out, except for landscape there isn't much filling the area. I hope Wii U can process multiple objects well, it looks like it can handle lighting fine. I actually mentioned that in my own thread on PS4.

Anyway, It seems we are at an understanding of each others opinions. I personaly think Wii U's capabilities are close to the PS4/Nextbox, or at least closer then PS2 was to X-Box and Gamecube. So I hope that developers make MP games for Wii U as well. Bungie not releasing Destiny on Wii U despite it releasing on PS3 and 360 seems like a slap in the face, and GTAV might release on PS4/Nextbox too, so that would also be annoying if they ignored Wii U.

So I just want to say that I think that if MP games don't get Wii U iterations this would be because of publisher decisions, and not Wii U's limitations. Wii U is powerful enough to compete with PS4/NextBox IMO, or at the very least see MP titles on it.

What I’m saying is I think the Wii U is closer to current gen than next gen – it is just more powerful than the current gen's offerings (akin to the Xbox and the other 3 consoles at the time). If it were leaps and bounds above current gen I don't think i would struggle to run some games like Ninja Gaiden 3 and Batman AC.

Actually yes it was referred as the Xbox 1.5. Most people were criticizing the graphics as being marginally better than Xbox games. That sentiment changed a year later when Gears of War launched, and all doubts evaporated.

The Wii U’s games will make a leap yes, but I believe by the time it is getting warmed up the PS4/Next Xbox would have already hit the accelerator and would be way beyond the bend.

Says the developer. When asked if the game would grace the Wii U he said it is unlikely for the same reason it will not be going to the PS3/360 – due to low specs. If you need a link I can provide you with one. One could say it is just developer banter, but he has no incentive to exclude a system, especially since he is an indie developer. It seems like the game will be available on PS4, PC and Xbox. How they envisioned the game is appears the Wii U can’t run it. But we will see.

 

And yes it is good to respect one’s opinions, even if we hold divergent opinions. I hope the Wii U does well. I do intend to own one after all. But I see it getting cut out of third party support (crossplatform games). If what the developer of The Witness says is true then it is already starting and PS4/Xbox Next are not even out yet.

I only see Wii U getting crossplat games in a similar vein to Watch Dogs. PS3/360 ported to Wii U, PS4 and Xbox. It should prove to be interesting to see how the Wii U version does against the PS3/360 version and in turn how PS4 does against Wii U. Ubisoft already confirmed the PS4 version will be THE definite version of the game.

Well to each their own. Wii games looked comparable to 6th gen games, I don't think Wii U is in that situation again, but you do. I think the gap from Wii U to PS4/NextBox is a slot smaller then the gap between Wii U and PS4. Do you agree about this?

As for the Witness, I guess it depends on how the game is created. During the 6th gen, most games were developed for the PS2, and then enhanced for the X-Box/Gamecube. If Developers make games for PS4/Nextbox, and then downgrade them for Wii U, then Wii U will loose out on a lot of MP titles. The people behind The Witness could have done this....or they could be covering up a Wii U port, since this is a PS4 "exclusive." or timed exclusive.

As for Ninja Gaiden/Batman, you do realize a lot of early launch games for all platforms are just enhanced versions of earlier generation games. Do you think FIFA 2005/2006 were created for the PS3/360 using a new engine, or did they just enhance the PS2 game? Not huge on FIFA, but wasn't there a huge jump in quality in 2007/2008? Ninja Gaiden and Batman are enhanced ports of existing PS3/360 games, of course PS3 can still play the original versions, or slightly downgraded versions.

As for Cross Platform Play, while many PS3/360/PS4/NextBox games will release for Wii U, not all of them will. Where is Destiny for Wii U? Some devs just ignore Nintendo, specifically western developers. Also many PS3/360 MP games releasing could also be released on the Wii U as well, but aren't. Where is Bioshock Infinite, GTA V, Mass Effect Trilogy, Metal Gear Rising, etc?

Except for Ubisoft, no western developer wants to invest in developing games for Nintendo home consoles, which is a shame.


Well I’ll put it this way. I don’t think the Wii U is in as bad a position with the PS4/Xbox as the Wii was with the PS3/360. But do I think it is in the same league with them? Nope. On paper the Wii U seems better than the PS3/360, and the latest NFS game – NFS Most Wanted – proves that since the Wii U version is the definitive version from a technical perspective (minus the PC version of course). But there are other drawbacks in the system such as its really slow RAM and less than stellar CPU. I say let’s wait and let the games do the talking for us, specifically the multiplatform games. Watch Dogs will be the first it seems.

It is a timed exclusive, but not because it was designed for the PS4 in mind initially. They said they don’t have good communication with MSFT, and as a result they don’t have tools for the next Xbox (that is the fault of MSFT he suggested). Barring that, I’m inclined to think it would have been a simultaneous release. So from that it became a timed exclusive. The devs specifically said other consoles – including the Wii U – were too low in terms of specs for the game they have in mind. So basically his words suggest the next Xbox will definitely get a version, just later.  But in its current form the Wii U won't. If a version has to be downgraded for the Wii U what does that tell you?

You might have missed my point here. All launch consoles gets ports from current generation hardware. That’s expected. However, that was not my point. Those enhanced version on the PS3/360 you mentioned actually sported superior graphics. That was expected. They were next gen consoles at the time, after all. On the other hand, the Wii U is another case entirely. NG3 RE on the Wii U is plagued with framerate issues and suffers from noticeably weaker graphics than its PS3/360 counterparts. Maybe I am wrong, but shouldn’t a next gen platform be able to run ports from 6 and 7 year old technology with ease? Batman has horrible framerate as well and in some cases the game doesn’t even have textures. I can provide you with links that have evidence in video form. Those ‘enhanced’ versions are not very enhanced.

I will reiterate my first point. I do not think the Wii U is in a bad position as the Wii was technologically speaking, so we agree on that. But that doesn't mean I think it is in the same leage as PS4/Xbox.



 

Playstation = The Beast from the East

Sony + Nintendo = WIN! PS3 + PSV + PS4 + Wii U + 3DS


HoloDust on 28 February 2013
Weedlab said:

I think some people are not taking into consideration some variables from both last and current generations. The stronger consoles from last gen didn’t last very long so as a result they didn’t get to realize their potential. I notice most people keep using PS2 graphics as the benchmark, but it was the weakest system of the bunch. Xbox and GC exclusives compared to 360 games launch exclusives should be an interesting comparison (if anybody has already done so then fine no need to go there again).

Also, this gen is by far the longest. If it was cut at 5 years then most of the games people have been using to compare to next gen wouldn’t be there. If the original Xbox and GC had such an extension I’m inclined to think the ‘leap’ wouldn’t be as pronounced, despite the jump in HD.


Not exlusives, but considered as one of the best looking games on Xbox 1:

Chronicles of Riddick

Doom 3

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory

 

 

X360 launch titles:

CoD2

 

Perfect Dark Zero



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TheLastStarFighter on 28 February 2013

Wii to Wii U = Biggest ever.
PS3 to PS4 = Smallest ever.

Those PS4 games looked visually awesome. Hard to use Deep Down though, because it was an engine they "hoped" would work on PS4, and it was just a demo. But the major thing with this gen is the games are fundamentally the same. The worlds already look great on PS360. Next gen will/do look better, but it's in the smaller details that are harder to notice. In the lighting, in the particles of mist, in the facial details. There is a lot more going on and a lot more detail, it's just harder for it to have much visual impact on the viewer. The difference between 8 bit and 16 was incredible, and switching to 3D or HD was pretty dramatic. Modern advancements are less so.



Michael-5 on 28 February 2013
Weedlab said:
Michael-5 said:

Well to each their own. Wii games looked comparable to 6th gen games, I don't think Wii U is in that situation again, but you do. I think the gap from Wii U to PS4/NextBox is a slot smaller then the gap between Wii U and PS3. Do you agree about this?

As for the Witness, I guess it depends on how the game is created. During the 6th gen, most games were developed for the PS2, and then enhanced for the X-Box/Gamecube. If Developers make games for PS4/Nextbox, and then downgrade them for Wii U, then Wii U will loose out on a lot of MP titles. The people behind The Witness could have done this....or they could be covering up a Wii U port, since this is a PS4 "exclusive." or timed exclusive.

As for Ninja Gaiden/Batman, you do realize a lot of early launch games for all platforms are just enhanced versions of earlier generation games. Do you think FIFA 2005/2006 were created for the PS3/360 using a new engine, or did they just enhance the PS2 game? Not huge on FIFA, but wasn't there a huge jump in quality in 2007/2008? Ninja Gaiden and Batman are enhanced ports of existing PS3/360 games, of course PS3 can still play the original versions, or slightly downgraded versions.

As for Cross Platform Play, while many PS3/360/PS4/NextBox games will release for Wii U, not all of them will. Where is Destiny for Wii U? Some devs just ignore Nintendo, specifically western developers. Also many PS3/360 MP games releasing could also be released on the Wii U as well, but aren't. Where is Bioshock Infinite, GTA V, Mass Effect Trilogy, Metal Gear Rising, etc?

Except for Ubisoft, no western developer wants to invest in developing games for Nintendo home consoles, which is a shame.


Well I’ll put it this way. I don’t think the Wii U is in as bad a position with the PS4/Xbox as the Wii was with the PS3/360. But do I think it is in the same league with them? Nope. On paper the Wii U seems better than the PS3/360, and the latest NFS game – NFS Most Wanted – proves that since the Wii U version is the definitive version from a technical perspective (minus the PC version of course). But there are other drawbacks in the system such as its really slow RAM and less than stellar CPU. I say let’s wait and let the games do the talking for us, specifically the multiplatform games. Watch Dogs will be the first it seems.

It is a timed exclusive, but not because it was designed for the PS4 in mind initially. They said they don’t have good communication with MSFT, and as a result they don’t have tools for the next Xbox (that is the fault of MSFT he suggested). Barring that, I’m inclined to think it would have been a simultaneous release. So from that it became a timed exclusive. The devs specifically said other consoles – including the Wii U – were too low in terms of specs for the game they have in mind. So basically his words suggest the next Xbox will definitely get a version, just later.  But in its current form the Wii U won't. If a version has to be downgraded for the Wii U what does that tell you?

You might have missed my point here. All launch consoles gets ports from current generation hardware. That’s expected. However, that was not my point. Those enhanced version on the PS3/360 you mentioned actually sported superior graphics. That was expected. They were next gen consoles at the time, after all. On the other hand, the Wii U is another case entirely. NG3 RE on the Wii U is plagued with framerate issues and suffers from noticeably weaker graphics than its PS3/360 counterparts. Maybe I am wrong, but shouldn’t a next gen platform be able to run ports from 6 and 7 year old technology with ease? Batman has horrible framerate as well and in some cases the game doesn’t even have textures. I can provide you with links that have evidence in video form. Those ‘enhanced’ versions are not very enhanced.

I will reiterate my first point. I do not think the Wii U is in a bad position as the Wii was technologically speaking, so we agree on that. But that doesn't mean I think it is in the same leage as PS4/Xbox.

 

NG3 RE is a bad example because thats a bad game, improved for Wii U, and improved again for PS3/360. Loot at Batman, Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect 3, while essentially ports, they all run smoothly on Wii U, with slightly improved graphics. Wii U plays ports of PS3/360 games (not games designed to go around Wii U's weaknesses) smoothly and better.

Wait...What about Batman? The Video comparisions I saw all put the Wii U version above the PS3/360 version.

As for your last sentence, that's fine. It's a difference of opinion and subjective. I agree with you, the only difference is that I think the drop from PS4 to Wii U graphically is minor enough to put games in the same league, where you see Wii U as some intermediate between PS4 and PS3. So to you it's not "next gen", but it's not "current gen" where to me both are "next gen" just PS4 looks better. To me Wii U is to PS4 what PS2 was to Gamecube.

----

Anyway, I was thinking though, do graphics matter as much as they used to? N64 compared to PS1 was night and day, but PS3 to 360, and PS4 to Wii U aren't that huge of a difference. I don't think many people bought a PS3 over a 360 because GoW3 looked better then GoW3 (HAHA), and I don't think too many people will buy a PS4 because Killzone looks better then say Metroid Prime 4. I think we're at a point where games really make the difference.

I mean consider handhelds, the Vita is capable of so much more then the 3DS, but 3DS is selling 4-8x better then the Vita on a weekly basis.



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Michael-5 on 28 February 2013
HoloDust said:
Weedlab said:

I think some people are not taking into consideration some variables from both last and current generations. The stronger consoles from last gen didn’t last very long so as a result they didn’t get to realize their potential. I notice most people keep using PS2 graphics as the benchmark, but it was the weakest system of the bunch. Xbox and GC exclusives compared to 360 games launch exclusives should be an interesting comparison (if anybody has already done so then fine no need to go there again).

Also, this gen is by far the longest. If it was cut at 5 years then most of the games people have been using to compare to next gen wouldn’t be there. If the original Xbox and GC had such an extension I’m inclined to think the ‘leap’ wouldn’t be as pronounced, despite the jump in HD.


Not exlusives, but considered as one of the best looking games on Xbox 1:

Chronicles of Riddick

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory

 

 

X360 launch titles:

CoD2

 

Doom 3

 

Perfect Dark Zero

Now I see how people thought X-Box 360 was X-Box 1.5! Wow late XB games looked amazing! I wonder how the gamecube versions of those XB games stack up.

However Doom 3 was a 360 game, there was still a pretty major jump in graphics, bigger then PS3 to PS4.

(Your link even says 360 games!)



What is with all the hate? Don't read GamrReview Articles. Contact me to ADD games to the Database
Vote for the March Most Wanted / February Results

Chark on 28 February 2013
Michael-5 said:

Now I see how people thought X-Box 360 was X-Box 1.5! Wow late XB games looked amazing! I wonder how the gamecube versions of those XB games stack up.

However Doom 3 was a 360 game, there was still a pretty major jump in graphics, bigger then PS3 to PS4.

(Your link even says 360 games!)

Doom 3 isn't a 360 game. I have Doom 3 for my Xbox. They recently releases a Doom 3 HD though. In fact that photo might be from the new version, which honestly wasn't that much of an improvement.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

Weedlab on 28 February 2013
HoloDust said:
Weedlab said:

I think some people are not taking into consideration some variables from both last and current generations. The stronger consoles from last gen didn’t last very long so as a result they didn’t get to realize their potential. I notice most people keep using PS2 graphics as the benchmark, but it was the weakest system of the bunch. Xbox and GC exclusives compared to 360 games launch exclusives should be an interesting comparison (if anybody has already done so then fine no need to go there again).

Also, this gen is by far the longest. If it was cut at 5 years then most of the games people have been using to compare to next gen wouldn’t be there. If the original Xbox and GC had such an extension I’m inclined to think the ‘leap’ wouldn’t be as pronounced, despite the jump in HD.


Not exlusives, but considered as one of the best looking games on Xbox 1:

Chronicles of Riddick

Doom 3

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory

 

 

X360 launch titles:

CoD2

 

Perfect Dark Zero


Thank you for posting these. And they're a great selection as well. I think they go a long way in showing how the leap compares between last and current gens to current and next. Using the PS2 would obviously make the leap look huge since the PS2 was the weakest system out of the bunch. What's also interesting is the Xbox wasn't fully tapped, neither was the GC.



 

Playstation = The Beast from the East

Sony + Nintendo = WIN! PS3 + PSV + PS4 + Wii U + 3DS