^And Rol strikes again, I couldn't of phrase those sentences better myself...

To be clear, no where am I claiming Nintendo is/was the main culprit, I am merely advocating for a more balanced and less one-sided view on the situation. As I've already said in this thread, even if Nintendo withheld information or supplied poor development tools to third parties, everything we know from developers proves that Sony were far worse in this regard when it came to developing on PS2 and PS3, and we know that never had a serious effect on the support they got.

Perhaps Sony made up for their poorly documented and unintuitive hardware designs by moneyhatting publishers to guarantee support, while Nintendo didn't. It wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the explanation for why Sony got more support despite having a less friendly developer environment.

But my main point wasn't necessarily addressed to the same part of the development community as yours was. We can agree that there are developers who's support Nintendo can gain simply by being on good terms with their respective owners/publishers. This is probably true for most studios owned by EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two, etc. In these cases even if the studios themselves don't like Nintendo's console, the publisher will force them to make quality games for it (at least on par with other versions) and they'd have no choice but to comply.

On the other hand, there are other development studios, usually more independant ones (at least in the west), but also a few who have proven themselves to be successful enough they can make their own choices when it comes to platforms, that can't be persuaded to develop on Nintendo systems in this way. More often than not, I'd imagine these are actually the studios Nintendo want to work with, as they are more likely to be driven by creative vision and desire to innovate than the big publi$hers. They are also the ones who are more personally invested in their work, regardless of the platform it releases on, and are therefor more likely to put actual effort into their games, regardless of whether or not they believe there is massive sales potential.

The way to approach these studios is not by force, but by sparking their imagination, creating an environment in which they can fulfill a dream project they've been tinkering with in their spare time, being a facilitator rather than an inhibitor. In the case of these kinds of studios, Nintendo needs to be as open and forthcoming and friendly as possible. They need to give these teams all the tools and hardware access Nintendo's own internal teams get. If a developer comes to them with a cool idea for using the Wiimote in a game he's passionate about, having him held back by arbitrary restrictions benefits nobody, and at the end of the day may even frustrate the developer and deter them from working on the system again. 

My main complaint against Nintendo last gen isn't how they treated big publishers, because we all know for them moneyhatting has become the standard, and Nintendo are right not to support it. However the multiple arbitrary restrictions they placed on developers who actually did care about utilising the system - from WiiWare size limitations, to unfair payment plans, to the terrible online store and restrictions on interacting with strangers online, including other possible roadblocks suggested by the OP - were detrimental to all.

edit: As a final thought, my impression as an outsider without any knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes is that surprisingly enough, Sony is actually a far more approachable partner than Nintendo for these types of studios, despite having more complicated hardware. So maybe it's not surprising they seem to be getting far more support in this area.

Even with limitations, Nintendo addressed this by releasing motion plus, which shows they listened to someone at least lol, but it wasn't really used.

Some game that worked well with the limitations from 3rd parties was RE4 and Godfather. Both these games worked well as effort was put in. 

This is just a couple examples where developers who tried made good controls. So others who complained clearly did not play some of these games.

lol Ahhhh, the old "I have top secret inside info but I have ZERO proof" gag. Never gets old.

A. I'm gonna call slight bullshit on the basis that in the last three gens, third party developers produced some of the prettiest/best games for Nintendo's home consoles. Case in point:

N64 - Turok 1 and 2, Doom 64 (for it's time), Star Wars: Rogue Squadron and Battle for Naboo, Beetle Adventure Racing, Ridge Racer 64, etc.

Gamecube - Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II and III, RE 1, Zero and 4, Soul Caliber II, Baten Kaitos, Tales of Symphonia, etc.

Wii - No More Heroes 1 and 2, Muramasa, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, RE Umbrella and Darkside Chronicles, MadWorld, Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter Tri, Goldeneye (despite being a lame CoD knock-off), etc.


2. I really don't think it's a case of "there's no 3rd party support for Wii U". The launch lineup, on paper, looked fantastic. Many people moaned that several of them were ports of games on other consoles, yet I'm sure many of those same people used to bitch that Nintendo consoles didn't GET those games. Fact of the matter is, Rayman Legends and Lego City: Undercover, both, were supposed to be originally released far closer to the system launch. They were both delayed by their respective publishers, and then Ubisoft pulled their BS with Rayman. It's unfortunate (VERY) that Jan. and Feb. have been such dry months for Wii U. But shit, as the expression goes, is about to pick up from March onward, with games like Lego City and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (complete with a console bundle) finally coming. It was a long two months, and that shouldn't have happened, but that in no way implies that nothing's coming. A lot of 3rd party projects simply haven't been announced. Who would have thought just a month or two ago, that Wii U was going to get Watch Dogs? Yet it is.



I have no doubt that Nintendo might "save the best hardware tricks for themselves" to some extent, but then again, I'm sure EVERY 1st party developer does that a little, Sony and Microsoft included. Hell, even Sega used to always make the best games on their consoles (for the most part) as well. BUT, I really don't think Nintendo is "gimping" people as is suggested, and certainly not to that extent. I also don't buy that 3rd party support went from looking strong at launch back in Nov., to "totally disappearing" a few months later. What it is, is that people tend to overreact to dry spells like Jan-Feb, coupled with lack of news/reveals on new upcoming 3rd party titles. The internet is the breeding ground for overreaction, after all.

But quite frankly, I for one am not worried. I'm still confident that Wii U will see stronger 3rd party support than Wii did (and that's taking into consideration that Wii still got a decent amount of quality 3rd party titles, just not a lot of multi-platform titles).

@DanneSandin

How are you supposed to know that insider info? I'm just curious.

Yes, I think they would have moved anyway because the game they wanted to make would not have fit on a cartridge.

FF7= 3 CD-roms, total game size roughly 1.8 GB according to Sony. N64 cartridge=64MB

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm

This article features some interesting tidbits of what happened. Presumably Enix's Dragon Quest left Nintendo for the same reason.

Of course, there was a financial aspect as well, plus Nintendos relationship with Square seemed somewhat infectious at the time. In this case, though, I believe the technical limitations was the main reason for the split because it inhibited their artistic vision for the game.

i think what you said is pure opinion and based loosely on rumor claims and nothing more. i highly doubt 75% of what you said will become true at or during e3. also nintendo wouldnt do what you have stated and treated 3rd parties like shit, and you honestly think sony hasnt or m$ hasnt treated 3rd parties like "shit" at some point in the previous/current gen. i strongly believe nintendo will have there best e3 in the past 3 or 4 years in my opinion this year and the reason i think is because they know they have too. do to the current wii u sales and the upcoming systems from sony/m$.

I dream with the day Nintendo anounces a hw piece that doesnt allow non-Nintendo games....imagine that...

crikey,i only made it halfway

Nintendo & 3rd parties are they still not getting on,it seems like sony is getting blamed for something here,is this xbox game going multiplat like gears or something as I understand it or GT Forza that would be about the only megaton meltdown I could think about not some long lost rpg only known to netnerds,nintendo cancelling a big 3rd party multiplat?

still I look forward to the revelations