lol don't you remember dreamcast had inferior ports of N64 and psx games, because developers were not used the hardware.

... you think the gamepad's graphics come out of thin air? The GPU has to render the gamepad as well as the main screen.

And neither Sonic Racing nor Black Ops 2 simply mirrors the main screen on the gamepad.

 its looks like beyond3d were having the same discussion we were having, explains what i have been trying to tell you but in much better wording.

Originally Posted by Syferz  So, the idea is that the gpu would be inefficient at 320sp, because of a slow CPU and slow ram, so it makes more sense for the gpu to be 160sp. Yes this seems much more efficient, a r700 part that performs 7gflops per watt... How again does this make sense? Or does 14gflops per watt make better sense, ports performing badly should never be evidence of something like this, some of which were done in only 6months. If you could do something like this then we could look to the HD remakes of ps2 games running on ps3 and 360 at 60+fps, at 1080p. The logic here is in the gutter.

If you don't go with the 160 SP idea, then there are two outcomes. 1) It's a 320 SP part completely gimp'd by the rest of the system. 2) Devs with considerable experience of AMD DX10 GPUs are unable to use those 320 SPs. The whole 'launch game' argument doesn't work any more because the basics of the architecture are no longer completely new, unlike trying to get PS2 games working on very different PS3 hardware. BLOPS and Batman etc. run on similar 320 SP architecture on PC with much better results. How can the same GPU achieve only half as much in Wii U other than the devs being pretty incompetant? Or Nintendo making things crazily difficult (perhaps not such a bad idea if we're to believe devs aren't even told how powerful the hardware is! )

The logic is not in the gutter. It's inconclusive, but sound. The comparisons are fair as they recognise difference ans similarities, where the old 'launch games don't count' ignores the changes that have happened with software in this industry.

Originally Posted by Syferz  Actually, taking the 360 game and trying to make it work on Wii U is what we've been hearing from developers, not the PC version of said game, working to 360's strengths and avoiding it's weaknesses is common sense, but to port it quickly over to Wii U (in some cases in as little as 6 months)

arent games mirrored 90% of the time, sure they might do different things at certain times but i doubt its taking more then 2% of the gpu's power, please share your source, i can link you to the article about the gamepad if you like.

I don't know what's more bizzare, an individual constantly making negative comments about a system they never intend to buy based on information they don't understand produced by "experts" who can't agree on what the information should be... or people trying to have an intellectual conversation with said individual.

What is giving you this strange idea that games are just mirroring the main screen on the gamepad? It doesn't make any sense, unless you're talking about gamepad-only play... in which case, you need to remember that that's an optional thing, and is in no way the standard.

I don't need articles, all I need is common sense. But since you don't seem to be employing that at the moment, here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9je513Sjf0&t=1m

Note that I'm not saying Sonic Racing is generating full output all of the time on the gamepad. It doesn't need to - the fact that it's displaying a second image is really more than enough. Note that it's *not* a mirroring, because the racer on the gamepad is Tails, but the one on the main screen is Sonic.

Here's Black Ops 2 being played in two-player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmDLvrYASk

Here's ZombiU:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRbQMuFAHEo

what negative comments am i making exactly, were just having a civil discussion, it really no diffrent then talking about game sales or caring how much a comany profits, it all silly but, its just to kill time, if nintendo released there specs then we would'nt even be talking about this.

Here we go again...

I always laugh at the people who PESSIMISTICALLY interpret WiiU speculation, while at the same time OPTIMISTICALLY interpreting PS4 speculation. The SAME people who say "Well the specs of PS4 match this graphics card, so it will most likely be faster than that same card", are the same ones who say "30% extra die area? no way that could mean the WiiU is faster than speculated!". For gods sake listen to yourselves.

And it always seems to be the same people...

thanks for showing me the vids, now i see, why nobody mentions the gamepad, it really doesn't look like it doing anything special,and i don't see DF bring up the gamepad in there faceoff, sonic racing looked like it was pushing nothing, the zombie u demo, you would basically have to stop moving so thats helps take the stress of the situation, like i said provide me some proof instead of baseless speculation, many of those bad ports don't even use the gamepad in that manner, anyway.