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Forums - General - Why are we still fighting for equality in America. "Gay Marriage and Religion"

dsgrue3 on 06 February 2013
Player1x3 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Player1x3 said:

It's not about being or participating in debates...its about starting them...A LOT. And mentioning  your atheism / attacking religion at the slightest reference to it. Believe me, i have witnessed this million times where there was no debate to begin with. They feel threatened by the very mentioning of anything religious so they attack it relentlessly, which screams their insecurity about their own beliefs. Now, if a religious person made a topic regarding atheism, i could somehow understand this behaviour.But that's almost never the case. Its almost always other way around

Much truth here. But it isn't because of what you preach. Why would a religious person attempt to use logic to prove their viewpoint when no logic applies?

Is this about gay marriage or religion? I am so confused.

What do you mean?

I mean logic doesn't apply to discussions of faith. You can't use empirical or logical evidence to support it. 



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Jay520 on 06 February 2013
Player1x3 said:


It's not about being or participating in debates...its about starting them...A LOT. And mentioning  your atheism / attacking religion at the slightest reference to it. Believe me, i have witnessed this million times where there was no debate to begin with. They feel threatened by the very mentioning of anything religious so they attack it relentlessly, which screams their insecurity about their own beliefs. Now, if a religious person made a topic regarding atheism, i could somehow understand this behaviour.But that's almost never the case. Its almost always other way around

 

I'm questioning this sentence: 

"It does show it is a very crumbling belief, at least among majority of it's followers (on interwebz)"

You're making a statement about the majority of atheists on the internet. This is flawed because you haven't encountered the majority of atheists on the internet, nor have you encountered a representative sample of the majority of atheists on the internet. The only atheists on the internet you've encountered are the ones who have revealled that they were atheists, meaning they were probably in a debate. You missed a huge sample of internet atheists who simply don't care about religion debates, who have probably never cared to reveal their atheism. So your assertion about the majority of internet atheists is a giant assumption.



Jay520 on 06 February 2013
sales2099 said:
Jay520 said:

And why is religion the only topic that shouldn't be discussed? Every other topic that's important to humanity is discussed thoroughly to encourage a mixture of different ideas, but when religion comes along, it gets some sacred privilege to be left alone. Why is that?

And why is it that discussion of something is an indication of a weak or false belief? You would never hear proponents/opponents of something like gun laws or gay marriage saying things like, "Why do you always try to talk about gun laws or gay marriage? The fact that you bring it up so much probably means your own stance is wrong. We here are confident about our beliefs and don't need to talk about because we're so confident." It's an incredibly silly notion.

Think your unknowingly referring to Islam, as that is the only religion left in the modern world where you will be jailed/killed for speaking against it.

Otherwise, since religion is faith based and not tangible, discussion and debate is moot from the get-go. But there is something to be said about constantly discussing something. To bring it up all the time means in principle that the idea in question isnt mostly agreed upon. If something is not always discussed, then tha means a viewpoint tends to be a majority one, no real discussion needed.


Look through this thread and you'll see people making two imlpications. Firstly, that religion is a topic that is better left not discussed. And secondly, that people who discuss atheism or religion likely have weak or false beliefs.



Jaywood2010 on 06 February 2013
Jay520 said:
sales2099 said:
Jay520 said:

And why is religion the only topic that shouldn't be discussed? Every other topic that's important to humanity is discussed thoroughly to encourage a mixture of different ideas, but when religion comes along, it gets some sacred privilege to be left alone. Why is that?

And why is it that discussion of something is an indication of a weak or false belief? You would never hear proponents/opponents of something like gun laws or gay marriage saying things like, "Why do you always try to talk about gun laws or gay marriage? The fact that you bring it up so much probably means your own stance is wrong. We here are confident about our beliefs and don't need to talk about because we're so confident." It's an incredibly silly notion.

Think your unknowingly referring to Islam, as that is the only religion left in the modern world where you will be jailed/killed for speaking against it.

Otherwise, since religion is faith based and not tangible, discussion and debate is moot from the get-go. But there is something to be said about constantly discussing something. To bring it up all the time means in principle that the idea in question isnt mostly agreed upon. If something is not always discussed, then tha means a viewpoint tends to be a majority one, no real discussion needed.


Look through this thread and you'll see people making two imlpications. Firstly, that religion is a topic that is better left not discussed. And secondly, that people who discuss atheism or religion likely have weak or false beliefs.


I changed the title of the thread so hopefully it will create a little better of a conversation.




       

IIIIITHE1IIIII on 06 February 2013

Player1x3 said:

I don't think  i've ever seen a group of people so insecure of their beliefs as internet atheists are. I mean, they really need to create threads like these so they can sleep better at night. It's kinda understandable tho, Atheism is a pretty weak belief on itself. Once the airplane starts crashing all of that goes down the shitter.


I remember that old signature of yours. Its final line read, "Atheist until the plane starts falling."

 

That's hardly an argument supporting that atheism is a "weak belief". If anything, that specific line suggests that fear (in this case: fear of death) triggers religious thoughts. Rational thinking is not even in the equation.

Also: Atheism is not a belief. It is complete lack of religious beliefs. How is it "weak" to avoid drawing conclusions based beliefs, and instead rely on facts and theories?



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Player1x3 on 07 February 2013
Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:


It's not about being or participating in debates...its about starting them...A LOT. And mentioning  your atheism / attacking religion at the slightest reference to it. Believe me, i have witnessed this million times where there was no debate to begin with. They feel threatened by the very mentioning of anything religious so they attack it relentlessly, which screams their insecurity about their own beliefs. Now, if a religious person made a topic regarding atheism, i could somehow understand this behaviour.But that's almost never the case. Its almost always other way around

 

I'm questioning this sentence: 

"It does show it is a very crumbling belief, at least among majority of it's followers (on interwebz)"

You're making a statement about the majority of atheists on the internet. This is flawed because you haven't encountered the majority of atheists on the internet, nor have you encountered a representative sample of the majority of atheists on the internet. The only atheists on the internet you've encountered are the ones who have revealled that they were atheists, meaning they were probably in a debate. You missed a huge sample of internet atheists who simply don't care about religion debates, who have probably never cared to reveal their atheism. So your assertion about the majority of internet atheists is a giant assumption.

What I meant with that sentence was '' at least among majority of it's followers I've met (on interwebz)'' I thought that was obvious within the context, but i guess not lol :p

And I already explained, its not just debates. Its at the slightest mention of religion, they go apeshit (example: visit 9gag, or even better reddit) The insecurity screams from thier attacks on religion. They constantly need to attack it to support their weak and insecure belief system. Its similar to a gay homophobe constantly talking about how he is 100% straight and bashes queers so he can keep reasuring himself and sleep better at night



Player1x3 on 07 February 2013
dsgrue3 said:
Player1x3 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Player1x3 said:

It's not about being or participating in debates...its about starting them...A LOT. And mentioning  your atheism / attacking religion at the slightest reference to it. Believe me, i have witnessed this million times where there was no debate to begin with. They feel threatened by the very mentioning of anything religious so they attack it relentlessly, which screams their insecurity about their own beliefs. Now, if a religious person made a topic regarding atheism, i could somehow understand this behaviour.But that's almost never the case. Its almost always other way around

Much truth here. But it isn't because of what you preach. Why would a religious person attempt to use logic to prove their viewpoint when no logic applies?

Is this about gay marriage or religion? I am so confused.

What do you mean?

I mean logic doesn't apply to discussions of faith. You can't use empirical or logical evidence to support it. 

Atheism has just as much to do with faith as any religion. Much more than any of them care to admit



Player1x3 on 07 February 2013
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Player1x3 said:

I don't think  i've ever seen a group of people so insecure of their beliefs as internet atheists are. I mean, they really need to create threads like these so they can sleep better at night. It's kinda understandable tho, Atheism is a pretty weak belief on itself. Once the airplane starts crashing all of that goes down the shitter.


I remember that old signature of yours. Its final line read, "Atheist until the plane starts falling."

 

That's hardly an argument supporting that atheism is a "weak belief". If anything, that specific line suggests that fear (in this case: fear of death) triggers religious thoughts. Ratinal thinking is not even in the equation.

Also: Atheism is not a belief. It is complete lack of religious beliefs. How is it "weak" to avoid drawing conclusions based beliefs, and instead rely on facts and theories?

The thing is, atheism and theism are both irrational, only rational stance is agnosticism. But the difference is once the strenght of Atheism is put to test (you're about to see if theres no afterlife) it crumbles completly. Which is why its such a weak belief. Its in human nature to hope for something afterwards, its just nature and psychology, rationality has little to do with it.

And tell me more about these facts that prove God doesnt exist. It takes just as much faith to believe higher power doesnt exist then to  believe it does. Maybe even more, but thats a different topic.



dsgrue3 on 07 February 2013
Player1x3 said:

Atheism has just as much to do with faith as any religion. Much more than any of them care to admit

I wouldn't say it has much to do with faith at all. It relies on the absence of evidence to form that belief. I absolutely agree that in regards to theoretical matters agnosticism is the only logical conclusion. 

I think you've encountered far too many vocal atheists who aren't really very educated at all and/or are trolls. 



ps3-sales! on 07 February 2013

The first rule about religion.... You don't hire Brad Pitt to make your statements.



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