well it does, as well as geographical locations, healthcare system (How does Canada's Healthcare system help mental health for example? idk). Again I'm not familar with canada. But the US/Mexico Border has all kinds of issues with violence and drug cartel etc. Where I'm sure the U.S. canada border is not near the issue.

I'm generally neutral. The main issue I have about taking away guns is more to do with the slippery slope of taking away existing rights. Than the guns themselves.

Imo the spirit of the 2nd ammendment was so that the citizens could retake a government that was corrupt or whatever. However, no one is going to take over the government with semi-automatic rifles against a military that has tanks, nukes, machine guns and body armor.  And thus, I understand the point of Semi-Auto's being useless. But that's already because from a certain point of view the 2nd Ammendment was already violated.

Some of the NRA proposals about censoring media violates the Spirit of the 2nd ammendment even more in my eyes. (If anything, the common people are going to overthrow the government through information rather than guns).

However, after all this trouble of banning guns what have you really done other than making a large group unhappy and creating a huge fissure between viewpoints. there are still illegal guns, Bombs, and knives. So how many lives would you really save? 50 a year, 100?

How many more lives could be saved by the government addressing more issues about the economy, and raising the general quality of life. Getting more people jobs so they don't have to resort to violence.

...which they aquired illegally.

CAMH - Center for Mental Health and Addiction is a much better system then the Center for Mental Health Services(CMHS) and Substance Abuse and Mental Heatlh Services Administration (SAMHSA), just read the names lol.

However CAMH is for Ontario only, and I'm not sure about how the rest of Canada fairs with mental health studies. However Ontario is out largest province.

As for the US/Canada Border, it's a lot more secure then the US/Mexico border, that's for sure.


See, people like you are logical, I 100% agree with you.

Guns are bad, but not really a fixable issue. You can work on drug control, mental health, and the economy in general (The USA economy is crap compared to Canada's. I'm not sure if we even entered a recession in the last decade).

I'd base it on poverty, education and a lack of trust in the police.   As was shown in  a number of the other gun control threads... US violence levels and gun violence levels are right in the middle of average of the OCED.... when it's the rates for white people.   All of our "crime boom" appears to be in minorities, specifically African Americans and Hispanic people.

When you look at the most likely reasons for that, poverty, education levels and just in general a feeling that they can't count on the police to give them a fair shake seem to be the most likely cause.  

Fix Education by dealing with it sensibly so schools have to compete with each other to survive, and work on rehabilitating the police image in a number of the worst areas in the US and I think you'd go a long way to solving the problem.

A) - Criminals use unregistered weapons, often times you hear of serial numbers being removed (to idenfity registration).

B) - Too much, maybe, but what is your point? This is about if taking away guns will help so this is quite obsolete.

C) - Don't follow, obsolete as well.

D) Violence

Rape (per 100,000)

# 1	France:	10,277	2009
# 2	Germany:	7,292	2009
# 3	Russia:	6,208	2009
# 4	Sweden:	4,901	2009
# 5	Argentina:	3,276	2008
# 6	Belgium:	2,786	2009
# 7	Philippines:	2,585	2009
# 8	Spain:	2,437	2009
# 9	Chile:	2,233	2009
# 10	Lesotho:	1,878	2009

# 12	Japan:	1,582	2009
# 13	New Zealand:	1,308	2009

# 23

Canada:

491

2009

# 43

Australia:

91.6

2003

# 57

United States:

30.2

2006

Source

Assault Victims:

# 1	Saint Kitts and Nevis:	3%
# 2	United Kingdom:	2.8%
= 3	New Zealand:	2.4%
= 3	Australia:	2.4%
# 5	Canada:	2.3%
# 6	Finland:	2.1%
= 7	France:	1.4%
= 7	Denmark:	1.4%
= 9	Sweden:	1.2%
= 9	United States:	1.2%

Source

Assault Crime (per 100,000):

# 1	Swaziland:	1,308.2	2004
# 2	South Africa:	1,188	2002
# 3	Mauritius:	1,044.9	2006
# 4	Sweden:	845.2	2006
# 5	New Zealand:	839.4	2006
# 6	Australia:	797	2003
# 7	United States:	786.7	1999
# 8	Zimbabwe:	765.1	2004
# 9	Israel:	763.3	2004
# 10	Canada:	737.5	2006

Source

D-II) Not sure what your point is. His point was mass shootings happen elsewhere when gun laws are stricter or completely banned.

E) Removing guns stops violence? No. Homicide? Let's see:

Notice the blue line is gun ownership rate, so one would expect to see decreased homicide rate (red dotted line) with the decreased gun ownership rate. We simply do not see such a trend.

F) No Canada Mass Shootings:

• In the 1989 massacre of 14 women at the Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal, Marc Lepine used a Ruger Mini-14 rifle, at the time equipped with a substantial magazine.
• And in 2006, Kimveer Gill used a Beretta Cx4 Storm to shoot 72 rounds at Montreal’s Dawson College, injuring 16 and killing student Anastasia DeSousa.

And that took about 5 seconds to google "Canada Mass Shootings".

Source

Final thoughts: 

It's good to debate these things, but not when you bring nothing factual to the table. Next time do some research so someone doesn't make you into a fool.

Also agree 100%.  Why can't more people in this country be more logical like this instead of blindly following their respective political sides?

A) Put people with posessions of these weapons in jail, and put owners of registered guns, who can't find them in jail as well. I understand if your gun was stollen, but if it was, you shouldn't be able to apply for a new one.

B) My point was your video mentioned this, but didn't address it. Guns rarely save others.

C) Obsolete? You're just saying that because you have no counter. USA and Canada have the exact same video games. So why does this only make Americans go on mass shootings, and in general kill more?

D) ~~~~~ USA is 3rd for Assault Crimes out of developed countries, 8th for Assault Victims, and far back on rape....However I can understand why Rape rates are so low in USA with Obesity rates being so high (36% Of Americans are Obese!, this is 3x the European Average).

Yup in General, Amricans (left the e out on purpose) are among the more violent people in developed countries.

D-II) His point about mass shooting happening in places with strict gun genulations is "obselete." It completly ignores the fact that Germany has free boarders, so gun smuggling is possible, and easy.

E) You realize that spike for countries with low homicide rates is due to Scotland and Ireland? A country with serious alcholism and drug issues? Remove that and yes, there is a trend. However, I meantioned this several times, drugs and alcohol are a bigger factor.

F) So guns not on the prohibitted list were responsible for Canada's only two shootings? One of which only had 1 fatality, the other being over 20 years old? Why not get statistics from the 19th Century while you're at it lol.

FT - Yes, you should, lol. Almost all your charts have been shown to help argue my side, not yours.

What do you think?

This was inspired by this threads ending: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=152358&page=5

Not to beat a dead Horse, but I was talking about guns recently with a co-worker of mine, and wow I can't believe I was blind to a few facts.

First of all, I find it insane that people are pro-gun at all in the USA. You need a gun for protect? How messed up is that? So are tourists from regions of the world who don't carry guns not safe to roam the streets of USA? If No one had guns, there would be less homicides, robberies and all forms of violent offences, simple as that. If old people need protection, they can get a taser gun, or mace, which has been shown to be just as effective to warn off individuals. I would even imagine it being more effective, because you can mace someone without feeling too guilty, but nothing brings back a soul from death.

Handguns => More Violence - This is why Canada has less violence (homicidal or just violent offences) then USA, by quite a bit too.

How do you say? In the other thread, a graph was shown which related countries with various homicide rates and ploted them against the number of gun owners, and it showed there was no significant difference right?

However what that graph did not include the ability to import weapons from other countries/states illegally.

You see while various countries in Europe and varous states within the USA have different gun ownership laws, there are no inspection boarders between states and countries within Europe. So people in California really have no trouble buying a gun in Texas, they might not be able to buy it themselves, but they can easily get a friend to buy it, or find a stollen one. Same with Europe. So even though neighbouring countries in Europe and states in USA have similar homicide rates despite different gun laws, this doesn't mean that there is no correlation between the two.

Canada however has an inspection boarder with USA. South Korea and Japan (two places with lower homicide rates in the world, and a gun ban) have heavy boarder security with their neighbours. So guns have trouble getting in illegally.

And what do we see? Societies with the same media, similar culture, similar qualities, lifestyles, etc, but a vastly different homicide rate.

Also no mass gun shootings...

Some Ideas:


-Ban Guns All Together

-Ban Guns, except at firing ranges. Where else do you need a gun?

-Ban Guns All Together, but make Hunting Rifles legal to carry in rural towns, near designated hunting grounds. You don't need to carry a gun in a major city, if you just need it for hunting, make it the law to have a gun stored at a shooting range, or police station, near the hunting range. Therefore no weapons should ever be in a major city unless it's a police Firearm.

-Ban Guns, except Rifles. Same as above, but you can take the rifle home (How many robberies or street muggings are done with a rifle?) You can still protect your house/car this way.

-Just Ban handguns. Really, Handguns are responsible for the majority of gun related homicides in the USA, they are easily conceilable, and serve no purpose except to kill others. If you need to carry a pistol into Wal-Mart to shop in safety, then something is seriously messed up.

-Just Ban Semi-Automatic Rifles. Does an elderly woman with a psychopathic son really need a semi-auto? This just brings trouble.

-Guns are fine, it's just the people who carry them. We need to make gun ownership more strict, and maybe add a longer wait time.

-Nothing wrong with guns. If I want to carry one, I should.

-I disagree with you, I think Guns makes no difference to the homicide rate

-(Not on poll) - Guns reduce violence, we should all have guns

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However, it is important to note that Drugs >>> Guns in homicide rates and violent crimes (And I always agreed to that). The most violent US states, European countries, and in fact, countries around the world, are those with the biggest drug problems. Nevada, Sierra Lione, Columbia, etc.





What are you're thoughts, I'm very curious.

Does anyone have a counter to this? Or should Americans have guns because "it's their right to" even though it imposes on the right to safety for others.