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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony Q3 FY2012 - $124m loss, PS3+PS2 6.8m, PSV+PSP 2.7m

Booh! on 07 February 2013
ethomaz said:

GAF is now discussing the theories about PS3 lifetime sales...

1) 74.9-75.4m (~15% of shipment is PS2)
2) over 76m (less than 10% of shipment is PS2)

Which do you think will win?


I think it's nearer to 76m than to 75m. Sony already stopped the production of PS2, so they think that the current stock will last till the launch of PS4, that means that worldwide shipments are really really low (probably they project to ship 0.2-0.3m this year).

There's little incentive to buy a PS2 these days, expecially in developing countries where older titles from the golden age of PS2 are unavailable and newer titles are no more developed (with perhaps India as the only exception, since it has a small game industry).

Example given:

in 2012 the only new games were FIFA, Major League Baseball 2k13 (only available in NA) and PES 2013 (which was not released in Japan)

2011 was the last year for WWE, Madden NFL, NBA 2k, MLB the Show

2010 was the last year for NCAA Football, PGA Tour



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sales2099 on 07 February 2013
Branko2166 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
ethomaz said:

To be clear...

- Vita is dead = cost for game division
- PS4 development = cost for game division

Even so... PS3 managed to put the game division profiting.

Or the guys here will thing it's PS2? or PSP?

PS3 is doing a great job to hold the game division profiting... that's what I see at all.

PS. I'm thank you Sony to finally put a game division in your company and not merge with oter non-profit products... the things became clear for all.

LoL

But when the XBox 360 suffers the same fate and even more so with payments to Nokia (500 million USD), Kin (200 million USD), WinPhone 7, The discontinued Zune and the Zune HD (>500 million) during this gen, you guys come up with graphs that even include the losses of the original Xbox and stopped in 2010 when the Xbox 360 and the division started to make even more money, to prove your point that Sonys gaming division is not doing that bad.

Just face it guys, the PS3 lost about 4-5 billion till now, while the Xbox 360 probably made 1-2 billion. That is why I just laugh about all these "PS3 will win over Xbox 360!" comments. They are pointless to begin with this late in a generation and the market share is not the only way to measure success on a market place.

This gen, Sony did all the things people feared MS would do (and did) when they entered this industry. They bought their way in. They made a decision in 2009 when they went after market share and not a healthy profit. The problem is, when MS did this in 2001, they could actually afford it and they built a whole new brand + an online service. Sony did not built anything, they used that money to survive in this industry.

Ok so the Playstation Network and Sony's substantial investment into its 1st party studios must be a figment of my imagination. You accuse others of being ignorant but that statement of yours doesn't reflect well on you.

You took that too literally....but PSN is nowehere close to the investments MS puts into Live. MS has been building up their 1st party studios substantially as well where as Sonys acquisitions are few and far between this gen.

But you missed the point that PS3 lost billions more this gen where as 360 made more money this gen, regardless of lifetime sales.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 07 February 2013
Booh! said:
ethomaz said:

GAF is now discussing the theories about PS3 lifetime sales...

1) 74.9-75.4m (~15% of shipment is PS2)
2) over 76m (less than 10% of shipment is PS2)

Which do you think will win?


I think it's nearer to 76m than to 75m. Sony already stopped the production of PS2, so they think that the current stock will last till the launch of PS4, that means that worldwide shipments are really really low (probably they project to ship 0.2-0.3m this year).

There's little incentive to buy a PS2 these days, expecially in developing countries where older titles from the golden age of PS2 are unavailable and newer titles are no more developed (with perhaps India as the only exception, since it has a small game industry).

Example given:

in 2012 the only new games were FIFA, Major League Baseball 2k13 (only available in NA) and PES 2013 (which was not released in Japan)

2011 was the last year for WWE, Madden NFL, NBA 2k, MLB the Show

2010 was the last year for NCAA Football, PGA Tour

They stopped production in January......so this quarter isn't relevant. Also it was just Japan that production stopped I believe. 3rd world countries have much incentive to buy one....namely its affordable.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 07 February 2013
ethomaz said:

GAF is now discussing the theories about PS3 lifetime sales...

1) 74.9-75.4m (~15% of shipment is PS2)
2) over 76m (less than 10% of shipment is PS2)

Which do you think will win?

#2 because PS3 fans want soooooooo bad to get out of last. Imaginations run wild I imagine.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Booh! on 07 February 2013
sales2099 said:
Booh! said:
ethomaz said:

GAF is now discussing the theories about PS3 lifetime sales...

1) 74.9-75.4m (~15% of shipment is PS2)
2) over 76m (less than 10% of shipment is PS2)

Which do you think will win?


I think it's nearer to 76m than to 75m. Sony already stopped the production of PS2, so they think that the current stock will last till the launch of PS4, that means that worldwide shipments are really really low (probably they project to ship 0.2-0.3m this year).

There's little incentive to buy a PS2 these days, expecially in developing countries where older titles from the golden age of PS2 are unavailable and newer titles are no more developed (with perhaps India as the only exception, since it has a small game industry).

Example given:

in 2012 the only new games were FIFA, Major League Baseball 2k13 (only available in NA) and PES 2013 (which was not released in Japan)

2011 was the last year for WWE, Madden NFL, NBA 2k, MLB the Show

2010 was the last year for NCAA Football, PGA Tour

They stopped production in January......so this quarter isn't relevant. Also it was just Japan that production stopped I believe. 3rd world countries have much incentive to buy one....namely its affordable.

It was worldwide: PlayStation 2 manufacture ends after 12 years [the guardian] , it was discontinued in Japan in November or December. Developing countries have no more incentive to buy it since there are no more games for it: all those 1000+ games from the first half of the 2000s are not available in those countries, simply because at the time the PS2 was not available there.



Around the Network
sales2099 on 07 February 2013
Booh! said:
sales2099 said:
Booh! said:
ethomaz said:

GAF is now discussing the theories about PS3 lifetime sales...

1) 74.9-75.4m (~15% of shipment is PS2)
2) over 76m (less than 10% of shipment is PS2)

Which do you think will win?


I think it's nearer to 76m than to 75m. Sony already stopped the production of PS2, so they think that the current stock will last till the launch of PS4, that means that worldwide shipments are really really low (probably they project to ship 0.2-0.3m this year).

There's little incentive to buy a PS2 these days, expecially in developing countries where older titles from the golden age of PS2 are unavailable and newer titles are no more developed (with perhaps India as the only exception, since it has a small game industry).

Example given:

in 2012 the only new games were FIFA, Major League Baseball 2k13 (only available in NA) and PES 2013 (which was not released in Japan)

2011 was the last year for WWE, Madden NFL, NBA 2k, MLB the Show

2010 was the last year for NCAA Football, PGA Tour

They stopped production in January......so this quarter isn't relevant. Also it was just Japan that production stopped I believe. 3rd world countries have much incentive to buy one....namely its affordable.

It was worldwide: PlayStation 2 manufacture ends after 12 years [the guardian] , it was discontinued in Japan in November or December. Developing countries have no more incentive to buy it since there are no more games for it: all those 1000+ games from the first half of the 2000s are not available in those countries, simply because at the time the PS2 was not available there.

Because black markets in 3rd world countries is a totally foreign concept..........and PS2 was never hackable to play pirated games right?.........:P



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Farsala on 07 February 2013
DirtyP2002 said:
ethomaz said:

To be clear...

- Vita is dead = cost for game division
- PS4 development = cost for game division

Even so... PS3 managed to put the game division profiting.

Or the guys here will thing it's PS2? or PSP?

PS3 is doing a great job to hold the game division profiting... that's what I see at all.

PS. I'm thank you Sony to finally put a game division in your company and not merge with oter non-profit products... the things became clear for all.

LoL

But when the XBox 360 suffers the same fate and even more so with payments to Nokia (500 million USD), Kin (200 million USD), WinPhone 7, The discontinued Zune and the Zune HD (>500 million) during this gen, you guys come up with graphs that even include the losses of the original Xbox and stopped in 2010 when the Xbox 360 and the division started to make even more money, to prove your point that Sonys gaming division is not doing that bad.

Just face it guys, the PS3 lost about 4-5 billion till now, while the Xbox 360 probably made 1-2 billion. That is why I just laugh about all these "PS3 will win over Xbox 360!" comments. They are pointless to begin with this late in a generation and the market share is not the only way to measure success on a market place.

This gen, Sony did all the things people feared MS would do (and did) when they entered this industry. They bought their way in. They made a decision in 2009 when they went after market share and not a healthy profit. The problem is, when MS did this in 2001, they could actually afford it and they built a whole new brand + an online service. Sony did not built anything, they used that money to survive in this industry.

I do not think Sony fans has ever cared about how much money each console has made for the company... During PS2 sure they made a little bit of money but they still lost to Nintendo. Marketshare and the console is the only thing they will care about.



Branko2166 on 07 February 2013

@Sales2099

He made an assertion which I addressed nothing more.
I am not debating about what investments MS made just pointing out the fallacy about his statements regarding Sony.

And where in my point did I state that Sony is doing great? I pointed out the challanges that they have in front of them as well as the fact that they have been bleeding money over a number of years now.

It seems that you are more interested in pointing out how well Microsoft is doing financially and how horrible Sony is in comparison. In any case this thread is about Sony's overall financials and we are trying to have a reasonable discussion about their prospects overall as a company.

If focusing only on the PS3 and how much money it has cost Sony makes you feel better than by all means keep at it.

I in turn will try to have a more balanced and interesting discussion.



 

 

Booh! on 07 February 2013
sales2099 said:
Booh! said:
sales2099 said:

They stopped production in January......so this quarter isn't relevant. Also it was just Japan that production stopped I believe. 3rd world countries have much incentive to buy one....namely its affordable.

It was worldwide: PlayStation 2 manufacture ends after 12 years [the guardian] , it was discontinued in Japan in November or December. Developing countries have no more incentive to buy it since there are no more games for it: all those 1000+ games from the first half of the 2000s are not available in those countries, simply because at the time the PS2 was not available there.

Because black markets in 3rd world countries is a totally foreign concept..........and PS2 was never hackable to play pirated games right?.........:P

Welcome to 2008, when the new-new-slim PS2 blocks the memory card exploit and I don't think those guys spend 50$ just to get a 5$ game shipped to their country...



Kynes on 07 February 2013
Booh! said:
sales2099 said:
Booh! said:
sales2099 said:
 

They stopped production in January......so this quarter isn't relevant. Also it was just Japan that production stopped I believe. 3rd world countries have much incentive to buy one....namely its affordable.

It was worldwide: PlayStation 2 manufacture ends after 12 years [the guardian] , it was discontinued in Japan in November or December. Developing countries have no more incentive to buy it since there are no more games for it: all those 1000+ games from the first half of the 2000s are not available in those countries, simply because at the time the PS2 was not available there.

Because black markets in 3rd world countries is a totally foreign concept..........and PS2 was never hackable to play pirated games right?.........:P

Welcome to 2008, when the new-new-slim PS2 blocks the memory card exploit and I don't think those guys spend 50$ just to get a 5$ game shipped to their country...


AFAIK on most South American countries most small shops sell the PS2 already chipped, so I'm sure that in most third world countries it's not uncommon to buy the console prepared to accept pirated games.