By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Surface Pro 64GB with 23GB of free space out of the box

timmah on 30 January 2013
pezus said:
timmah said:
pezus said:
This should count as false advertising imo. Probably will in Europe in due time.

That would mean every single computer ever sold is 'false advertising', according to your definition. If I buy a PC with a 500GB hard drive you start off with about 465GB useable, about 25GB is already taken up by OS and bundled apps, and about 12-16GB is taken up by recovery and utility partitions. The only difference here is initial hard disk size. Space taken up by file system overhead, OS, apps, utility & recovery partitions is about 41GB. 64GB-41GB = 23GB. On a 500GB (465GB useable) the free space would be about 424GB free space out of the box... false advertising? Nope.

That is not true. It's easy to buy a PC without an OS. In fact, I don't think I've ever bought a PC with an OS. You can choose to get Windows, or you can choose not to. This on the other hand, advertises something and then when I open it up it gives me ~35% of what they advertised. It does so because it forces the OS on you. You have no choice. Even if I bought a PC with an OS, the space lost wouldn't amount to much relative space (430/500 = not a big difference).

Why the hell would MICROSOFT sell a PC without an OS preinstalled?? Again, every PC sold with Windows (or any OS) already on it loses a similar amount of disk space. That's across the board.

Also, you can remove the utility partitions and regain 12-16GB if you want. Anybody that buys a computer that is advertised to come with an OS preinstalled and expects to have 100% of the advertised DISK CAPACITY free out of the box (this is not advertised free space, but raw capacity mind you) doesn't know anything about computers. Their advertising states that Windows is preinstalled, it is widely known that computers with Windows preinstalled lose about 40GB of free space, therefore it is not in any way false advertising.



Around the Network
dsgrue3 on 30 January 2013
timmah said:
pezus said:
timmah said:
pezus said:
This should count as false advertising imo. Probably will in Europe in due time.

That would mean every single computer ever sold is 'false advertising', according to your definition. If I buy a PC with a 500GB hard drive you start off with about 465GB useable, about 25GB is already taken up by OS and bundled apps, and about 12-16GB is taken up by recovery and utility partitions. The only difference here is initial hard disk size. Space taken up by file system overhead, OS, apps, utility & recovery partitions is about 41GB. 64GB-41GB = 23GB. On a 500GB (465GB useable) the free space would be about 424GB free space out of the box... false advertising? Nope.

That is not true. It's easy to buy a PC without an OS. In fact, I don't think I've ever bought a PC with an OS. You can choose to get Windows, or you can choose not to. This on the other hand, advertises something and then when I open it up it gives me ~35% of what they advertised. It does so because it forces the OS on you. You have no choice. Even if I bought a PC with an OS, the space lost wouldn't amount to much relative space (430/500 = not a big difference).

LOL! Why the hell would MICROSOFT sell a PC without an OS preinstalled?? Again, every PC sold with Windows (or any OS) already on it loses a similar amount of disk space. That's across the board.

Also, you can remove the utility partitions and regain 12-16GB if you want. Anybody that buys a computer that is advertised to come with an OS preinstalled and expects to have 100% of the advertised DISK CAPACITY free out of the box (this is not advertised free space, but raw capacity mind you) doesn't know anything about computers. Their advertising states that Windows is preinstalled, it is widely known that computers with Windows preinstalled lose about 40GB of free space, therefore it is not in any way false advertising.

Subway is being sued for falsely advertising foot long subs, which did not measure to 12". This is far worse.



timmah on 30 January 2013
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
pezus said:
timmah said:
pezus said:
This should count as false advertising imo. Probably will in Europe in due time.

That would mean every single computer ever sold is 'false advertising', according to your definition. If I buy a PC with a 500GB hard drive you start off with about 465GB useable, about 25GB is already taken up by OS and bundled apps, and about 12-16GB is taken up by recovery and utility partitions. The only difference here is initial hard disk size. Space taken up by file system overhead, OS, apps, utility & recovery partitions is about 41GB. 64GB-41GB = 23GB. On a 500GB (465GB useable) the free space would be about 424GB free space out of the box... false advertising? Nope.

That is not true. It's easy to buy a PC without an OS. In fact, I don't think I've ever bought a PC with an OS. You can choose to get Windows, or you can choose not to. This on the other hand, advertises something and then when I open it up it gives me ~35% of what they advertised. It does so because it forces the OS on you. You have no choice. Even if I bought a PC with an OS, the space lost wouldn't amount to much relative space (430/500 = not a big difference).

LOL! Why the hell would MICROSOFT sell a PC without an OS preinstalled?? Again, every PC sold with Windows (or any OS) already on it loses a similar amount of disk space. That's across the board.

Also, you can remove the utility partitions and regain 12-16GB if you want. Anybody that buys a computer that is advertised to come with an OS preinstalled and expects to have 100% of the advertised DISK CAPACITY free out of the box (this is not advertised free space, but raw capacity mind you) doesn't know anything about computers. Their advertising states that Windows is preinstalled, it is widely known that computers with Windows preinstalled lose about 40GB of free space, therefore it is not in any way false advertising.

Subway is being sued for falsely advertising foot long subs, which did not measure to 12". This is far worse.

Wow, you really don't get it. They're not advertising free space, they're advertising raw capacity. This is the industry standard for how hard disk space is measured and advertised across the entire industry. This line of thinking has been tried before in lawsuits against PC manufacturers and gotten nowhere.



dsgrue3 on 30 January 2013
timmah said:

Wow, you really don't get it. They're not advertising free space, they're advertising raw capacity. This is the industry standard for how hard disk space is measured and advertised across the entire industry. This line of thinking has been tried before in lawsuits against PC manufacturers and gotten nowhere.

Bolded is completely irrelevant. This is a tablet. Do you have lawsuits on hand about tablets?



timmah on 30 January 2013
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:

Wow, you really don't get it. They're not advertising free space, they're advertising raw capacity. This is the industry standard for how hard disk space is measured and advertised across the entire industry. This line of thinking has been tried before in lawsuits against PC manufacturers and gotten nowhere.

Bolded is completely irrelevant. This is a tablet. Do you have lawsuits on hand about tablets?

It's a PC (personal computer) running a full PC operating system. Tablet is just a form factor, much like laptop, ultrabook, ultrabook convertible (tablet and laptop hybrid), netbook, desktop, minitower, all-in-one, small form factor, etc. It has the same basic components & software as an ultrabook: intel processor, motherboard, cooling, ram, SSD, and preinstalled OS. The fact that it's in a different type of case changes nothing, it is a PC. A 32GB iPad only allows the user access to 28-30GB of storage. Smaller loss for a smaller OS. 32GB in this case refers to raw capacity, the OS taking up some space is a given. If the OS is larger, the space taken up is larger, since it is advertised to come with Windows 8, we can assume the same mathematics that apply to a Windows 8 PC would also apply here (since it is a Windows 8 PC in a tablet form factor). It's certainly possible that somebody could sue and win (dumber lawsuits have been won), but if this is false advertising, so is the entire PC/Mac sales industry.



Around the Network
Galaki on 30 January 2013

Why is everyone complaining about preinstalled free pron?



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

dsgrue3 on 30 January 2013
timmah said:

It's a PC (personal computer) running a full PC operating system. Tablet is just a form factor, much like laptop, ultrabook, netbook, desktop, minitower, all-in-one, small form factor, etc. It has the same basic components & software as an ultrabook: intel processor, motherboard, cooling, ram, SSD, and preinstalled OS. The fact that it's in a different type of case changes nothing, it is a PC. A 32GB iPad only allows the user access to 28-30GB of storage. Smaller loss for a smaller OS. 32GB in this case refers to raw capacity, the OS taking up some space is a given. If the OS is larger, the space taken up is larger, since it is advertised to come with Windows 8, we can assume the same mathematics that apply to a Windows 8 PC would also apply here (since it is a Windows 8 PC in a tablet form factor). It's certainly possible that somebody could sue and win (dumber lawsuits have been won), but if this is false advertising, so is the entire PC/Mac sales industry.

Phone is PC? O.o

I do agree in general with the lawsuits being meritless, but in this case it's important to understand the difference. 28GB/32GB isn't a big loss. 23GB/64GB is a drastic difference. It's the ratio that's the issue. Average consumers will not realize or expect this type of difference because it hasn't been the norm and will feel duped.



mike_intellivision on 30 January 2013

Some old things are new again -- except they are worse.

C64 -- 39K free (out of 64K total memory -- hence the name Commodore 640.
S64 -- 23GB free out of 64GB of storage space.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
timmah on 30 January 2013
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:

It's a PC (personal computer) running a full PC operating system. Tablet is just a form factor, much like laptop, ultrabook, netbook, desktop, minitower, all-in-one, small form factor, etc. It has the same basic components & software as an ultrabook: intel processor, motherboard, cooling, ram, SSD, and preinstalled OS. The fact that it's in a different type of case changes nothing, it is a PC. A 32GB iPad only allows the user access to 28-30GB of storage. Smaller loss for a smaller OS. 32GB in this case refers to raw capacity, the OS taking up some space is a given. If the OS is larger, the space taken up is larger, since it is advertised to come with Windows 8, we can assume the same mathematics that apply to a Windows 8 PC would also apply here (since it is a Windows 8 PC in a tablet form factor). It's certainly possible that somebody could sue and win (dumber lawsuits have been won), but if this is false advertising, so is the entire PC/Mac sales industry.

Phone is PC? O.o

I do agree in general with the lawsuits being meritless, but in this case it's important to understand the difference. 28GB/32GB isn't a big loss. 23GB/64GB is a drastic difference. It's the ratio that's the issue. Average consumers will not realize or expect this type of difference because it hasn't been the norm and will feel duped.

Phone is not a PC, as making calls is it's primary function, though Windows Phone 8 does run the same basic kernel as Windows 8 RT. Keep in mind that phones also suffer the same disparity, some portion of advertised capacity is always taken up by the OS. Even an iPod has the same issue.

I get the ratio issue, so it might be good for MS to put an astrisk by that number just for clarity. On the other hand, keep in mind you can easily plug in USB storage or a MicroSD card unlike most other 'tablets'.

EDIT: I just realized that in the middle of the discussion I went from debating pezus, to dsgrue! Funny, it appears that wherever I go, you're always there to disagree with me XD.



dsgrue3 on 30 January 2013
timmah said:
dsgrue3 said:

Phone is PC? O.o

I do agree in general with the lawsuits being meritless, but in this case it's important to understand the difference. 28GB/32GB isn't a big loss. 23GB/64GB is a drastic difference. It's the ratio that's the issue. Average consumers will not realize or expect this type of difference because it hasn't been the norm and will feel duped.

Phone is not a PC, as making calls is it's primary function, though Windows Phone 8 does run the same basic kernel as Windows 8 RT. Keep in mind that phones also suffer the same disparity, some portion of advertised capacity is always taken up by the OS. Even an iPod has the same issue.

I get the ratio issue, so it might be good for MS to put an astrisk by that number just for clarity. On the other hand, keep in mind you can easily plug in USB storage or a MicroSD card unlike most other 'tablets'.

EDIT: I just realized that in the middle of the discussion I went from debating pezus, to dsgrue! Funny, it appears that wherever I go, you're always there to disagree with me XD.

Master Pezus had more important affairs. I had to step in. :O

They (PC/Tablet/Phone) makers all need to have legislation dealing with this issue - list free space out of capacity instead of just capacity.