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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Echoes of Wisdom Sells 2.58 Million Units

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Are you planning to buy Echoes of Wisdom?

I already pre-ordered 7 46.67%
 
Picking it up soon 4 26.67%
 
Waiting for a sale 2 13.33%
 
No, it's not for me 2 13.33%
 
Total:15
curl-6 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
I know it's way too early, but if you had to guess: where do you think this will rank among Zelda games when the dust settles?

I honestly think it has a shot at dethroning Ocarina as the all time best in my personal rankings.

That would be something :)

If it ended up topping Ocarina it would be, for me, the best game ever made. It's exciting just thinking about that :D



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Nuvendil said:

See I categorically disagree.  As someone who only played all these games in the last 10 months and has no fond memories or nostalgia, I find Ocarina of Time to have aged worse than most describe.  Not badly, mind.  But it hasn't "not aged a day.". Characters and writing?  There ARE no characters, just a collection of faces with basic, one note personalities that can be  summed up in one sentence.  And the story is beyond plot centered, it is almost exclusively plot focused.  There's some OK world building but every last one of the Zeldas since surpass it in all areas of writing.  The only thing it " has going for it" is the quick pace at the start but honestly, it feels more like a lack of any development of any kind.

Dungeon quality and number is probably the greatest strength.  Here it can match and in Wind Waker and Majora's cases surpass its successors.  But honestly, while they are challenging, they are a less interesting type of challenge compared to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.  

And the over world of Hyrule Field is the most ruthlessly lacking one of all the 3D Zeldas.  Twilight Princess usually gets more flack for this but honestly, at least there you have a few mini dungeon type things and some environmental puzzles or obstacles to reach secrets and chests.  Ocarina of Time is just a big vast void with just the ranch to break it up.  It's smaller, yeah, but it's emptier.  

Combat in OoT definitely holds up better than it has any right to for a game from a console with just one analogue stick :P.  But the Twilight Princess and Wind Waker iterations are far more polished, especially TP.

In terms of art direction, I feel every 3D Zelda has more of an identity.  That includes Majora's Mask.

Honestly, a lot of my quibbles come down I think to the game being built to PUSH the hardware in order to show off rather than maximize the potential.  Majora's Mask franklyfeels more like it did the latter.  

Anyway, those are my thoughts :P

I don't play Zelda games for the story, so I'm not bothered by the lack of a deeper narrative in OoT. It has an epic high fantasy vibe and some amusing characters, that's about all I ask for in a game of this type.

Hyrule Field may have been quite empty due to hardware limitations, but seeing it sprawl out before me for the first time was a breathtaking moment, and it still had a couple of hidden caves and baddies throughout, and at night the skeletons came out to play.

As for the art style, while again hardware limits need to be taken into account, I still feel that Ocarina and Twilight Princess have the ideal look for the series; colourful enough to be lively and charming, but "dark" enough to be epic and dramatic.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
I know it's way too early, but if you had to guess: where do you think this will rank among Zelda games when the dust settles?

Subjectively, #2 (between ALBW and ALttP) or maybe even #1. I've never liked the 3D Zelda games, so one that I enjoy will be fantastic. And this one specifically looks glorious.

Objectively, probably #3. OoT is just way too loved, and (I think) WW is becoming a more popular choice among newcomers. That's at least how I see the general public choose Zelda titles.

BotW has a big and good shot at becoming the best and most beloved Zelda game, but it will have to pass the test of time, story, and durability (as in, sure the game is huge and filled with content, but how many will actually go through all of it and enjoy it?).



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curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

See I categorically disagree.  As someone who only played all these games in the last 10 months and has no fond memories or nostalgia, I find Ocarina of Time to have aged worse than most describe.  Not badly, mind.  But it hasn't "not aged a day.". Characters and writing?  There ARE no characters, just a collection of faces with basic, one note personalities that can be  summed up in one sentence.  And the story is beyond plot centered, it is almost exclusively plot focused.  There's some OK world building but every last one of the Zeldas since surpass it in all areas of writing.  The only thing it " has going for it" is the quick pace at the start but honestly, it feels more like a lack of any development of any kind.

Dungeon quality and number is probably the greatest strength.  Here it can match and in Wind Waker and Majora's cases surpass its successors.  But honestly, while they are challenging, they are a less interesting type of challenge compared to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.  

And the over world of Hyrule Field is the most ruthlessly lacking one of all the 3D Zeldas.  Twilight Princess usually gets more flack for this but honestly, at least there you have a few mini dungeon type things and some environmental puzzles or obstacles to reach secrets and chests.  Ocarina of Time is just a big vast void with just the ranch to break it up.  It's smaller, yeah, but it's emptier.  

Combat in OoT definitely holds up better than it has any right to for a game from a console with just one analogue stick :P.  But the Twilight Princess and Wind Waker iterations are far more polished, especially TP.

In terms of art direction, I feel every 3D Zelda has more of an identity.  That includes Majora's Mask.

Honestly, a lot of my quibbles come down I think to the game being built to PUSH the hardware in order to show off rather than maximize the potential.  Majora's Mask franklyfeels more like it did the latter.  

Anyway, those are my thoughts :P

I don't play Zelda games for the story, so I'm not bothered by the lack of a deeper narrative in OoT. It has an epic high fantasy vibe and some amusing characters, that's about all I ask for in a game of this type.

Hyrule Field may have been quite empty due to hardware limitations, but seeing it sprawl out before me for the first time was a breathtaking moment, and it still had a couple of hidden caves and baddies throughout, and at night the skeletons came out to play.

As for the art style, while again hardware limits need to be taken into account, I still feel that Ocarina and Twilight Princess have the ideal look for the series; colourful enough to be lively and charming, but "dark" enough to be epic and dramatic.

Oh I know story isn't as important in Zelda as in other games.  But it IS a part and deserves scrutiny.  Twilight Princess has great gameplay, excellent dungeon design, and so many other exceptional gameplay elements but has a story that engaged me, a villain that was interesting and intimidating and had what I think was a fascinating deconstruction, a companion who is an excellent character not just for a Zelda game but for any game.  So yeah, I can understand it not being crucial but it is there and can and has been better than OoT.

That's where I differ I think.  For me, it wasn't breathtaking cause I've played numerous big open world games including Wind Waker and the pseudo-open Twilight Princess.  In fact, I was kinda stunned how close some things were at times :P.  So for me, there was no wow facto except when consider it was a 3DS game.

Art style isn't bad mind you, I just don't see as much distinct flavor as pretty much all the others.  I actually think I prefer the Skyward Sword style, despite the hardware clearly limiting how far they could push it.  But the BotW art style is the best so far I think.  Has a distinct flavor, bold use of color, highly expressive, yet still has plenty of potential to be serious.

But all this goes back to what I said earlierl:  I don't think OoT stands up in a straight comparison of the games as they sit right now, but I do think that of all the 3D Zeldas OoT is the most prominent when compared to the peers of its day.  



Nuvendil said:

Oh I know story isn't as important in Zelda as in other games.  But it IS a part and deserves scrutiny.  Twilight Princess has great gameplay, excellent dungeon design, and so many other exceptional gameplay elements but has a story that engaged me, a villain that was interesting and intimidating and had what I think was a fascinating deconstruction, a companion who is an excellent character not just for a Zelda game but for any game.  So yeah, I can understand it not being crucial but it is there and can and has been better than OoT.

That's where I differ I think.  For me, it wasn't breathtaking cause I've played numerous big open world games including Wind Waker and the pseudo-open Twilight Princess.  In fact, I was kinda stunned how close some things were at times :P.  So for me, there was no wow facto except when consider it was a 3DS game.

Art style isn't bad mind you, I just don't see as much distinct flavor as pretty much all the others.  I actually think I prefer the Skyward Sword style, despite the hardware clearly limiting how far they could push it.  But the BotW art style is the best so far I think.  Has a distinct flavor, bold use of color, highly expressive, yet still has plenty of potential to be serious.

But all this goes back to what I said earlierl:  I don't think OoT stands up in a straight comparison of the games as they sit right now, but I do think that of all the 3D Zeldas OoT is the most prominent when compared to the peers of its day.  

Skyward and Twilight do have better stories, (And I too love Midna) but I don't feel their worlds, soundtracks, or the whole cohesive package were as epic and memorable as Ocarina's.

Art style's obviously subjective, but while I do very much enjoy Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild's art styles, I feel that the TP route is the best so far, as it retains a quirky stylization while still being very dramatic in a Lord of the Rings kind of way. The Zelda HD demo at E3 2011 is pretty much what my ideal Zelda would look like.



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curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

Oh I know story isn't as important in Zelda as in other games.  But it IS a part and deserves scrutiny.  Twilight Princess has great gameplay, excellent dungeon design, and so many other exceptional gameplay elements but has a story that engaged me, a villain that was interesting and intimidating and had what I think was a fascinating deconstruction, a companion who is an excellent character not just for a Zelda game but for any game.  So yeah, I can understand it not being crucial but it is there and can and has been better than OoT.

That's where I differ I think.  For me, it wasn't breathtaking cause I've played numerous big open world games including Wind Waker and the pseudo-open Twilight Princess.  In fact, I was kinda stunned how close some things were at times :P.  So for me, there was no wow facto except when consider it was a 3DS game.

Art style isn't bad mind you, I just don't see as much distinct flavor as pretty much all the others.  I actually think I prefer the Skyward Sword style, despite the hardware clearly limiting how far they could push it.  But the BotW art style is the best so far I think.  Has a distinct flavor, bold use of color, highly expressive, yet still has plenty of potential to be serious.

But all this goes back to what I said earlierl:  I don't think OoT stands up in a straight comparison of the games as they sit right now, but I do think that of all the 3D Zeldas OoT is the most prominent when compared to the peers of its day.  

Skyward and Twilight do have better stories, (And I too love Midna) but I don't feel their worlds, soundtracks, or the whole cohesive package were as epic and memorable as Ocarina's.

Art style's obviously subjective, but while I do very much enjoy Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild's art styles, I feel that the TP route is the best so far, as it retains a quirky stylization while still being very dramatic in a Lord of the Rings kind of way. The Zelda HD demo at E3 2011 is pretty much what my ideal Zelda would look like.

Soundtrack is definitely one strong point of OoT I forgot to bring up.  For that one, I have a hard time deciding where the games fall.  I love all the field themes.  As for epicness...hmmm.  Wind Waker felt pretty epic to me, oddly, in terms of story and scope.  Skyward Sword isn't so much epic as dramatic.  I would say overall Twilight Princess feels to me the most epic.  OoT is definitely very epic for an N64 game and has a grandiose scope.  But I feel Twilight Princess feels like a more grand adventure, with a more ever-present sense of conflict and a more compelling villain and a lot more meaningful plot twists.

I can definitely see where you're coming from.  I think the coolest part about Zelda though is that the art style they choose is always paired up very well with what they want to do with the story in terms of style and tone.



Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but in the trailer there does seem to be some sort of lumberjack or someone:



He doesn't seem to be present in the E3 demo, so wonder why that person was removed...



 

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All this talk about "best this" and "best that" gives me an idea. What if we did a Zelda superlatives vote? Best dungeon, best overworld, best boss, best music, etc.

What do you guys think?



b00moscone said:
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but in the trailer there does seem to be some sort of lumberjack or someone:



He doesn't seem to be present in the E3 demo, so wonder why that person was removed...

I'm thinking it might be the old man you first met when you leave your sleep?



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DanneSandin said:
b00moscone said:
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but in the trailer there does seem to be some sort of lumberjack or someone:

-snip

He doesn't seem to be present in the E3 demo, so wonder why that person was removed...

I'm thinking it might be the old man you first met when you leave your sleep?

-snip-

Yea, I can see the resemblance, but if that's the case, then it really does bring up more questions than answers, such as why he's cutting down trees, why he's so involved with Link etc.



 

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