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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Echoes of Wisdom Out Now

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Are you planning to buy Echoes of Wisdom?

I already pre-ordered 5 38.46%
 
Picking it up soon 4 30.77%
 
Waiting for a sale 2 15.38%
 
No, it's not for me 2 15.38%
 
Total:13

Yes, because apparently it's obnoxious to instill a bit of rationality into a thread every now and again. I guess it's a strangely hot take to say you should have to pay for bonus content, that you aren't owed free shit, and that people are just looking for reasons to bitch about anything and everything they can.

I honestly feel like people don't understand the core concepts of business and economy, or that their precious gaming medium isn't subject to the same rules as every other industry.

Yes there are shitty things that some businesses do. Yes there are some shitty things that gaming companies do.

But giving us hundreds of hours worth of content on the game card in one of the best games of all time but expecting you to buy an amiibo in order to get some bonus content is NOT a shitty thing to do. It's just Nintendo going 'hey, here's this amazing, detailed, fun game with more than one thousand collectibles and hundreds of hours of gameplay; and if you wanna do it like link from Twilight princess, that is gonna cost extra."

So yes, I am obnoxious if that's just code for 'sick and tired of entitled shits whining about anything that doesn't result in them getting free shit.'



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Honestly, I agree with Runa. It's okay for an amiibo to offer an exclusive cosmetic bonus, and silly to complain that you can't get the exclusive cosmetic without it. It gives a unique value to the amiibo without locking out any gameplay. However, I would agree that hard mode shouldn't be locked behind an amiibo as that's an actual piece of gameplay not a cosmetic bonus.



psychicscubadiver said:
Honestly, I agree with Runa. It's okay for an amiibo to offer an exclusive cosmetic bonus, and silly to complain that you can't get the exclusive cosmetic without it. It gives a unique value to the amiibo without locking out any gameplay. However, I would agree that hard mode shouldn't be locked behind an amiibo as that's an actual piece of gameplay not a cosmetic bonus.

Problem with this argument is when the said amiibo is not easy to get a hold of whether due to price or availability then you can't access the extra content that is what people are saying here at least add the content in the dlc season pass as an alternative option. The exclusive content is also already in the base game so isn't added by the amiibo it's only unlocked and is so far the only way to unlock it where as SMO gave players an alternative method of unlocking them meaning for a significant number of players the content is permanently locked in BOTW, it's a valid complaint.



Wyrdness said:
psychicscubadiver said:
Honestly, I agree with Runa. It's okay for an amiibo to offer an exclusive cosmetic bonus, and silly to complain that you can't get the exclusive cosmetic without it. It gives a unique value to the amiibo without locking out any gameplay. However, I would agree that hard mode shouldn't be locked behind an amiibo as that's an actual piece of gameplay not a cosmetic bonus.

Problem with this argument is when the said amiibo is not easy to get a hold of whether due to price or availability then you can't access the extra content that is what people are saying here at least add the content in the dlc season pass as an alternative option. The exclusive content is also already in the base game so isn't added by the amiibo it's only unlocked and is so far the only way to unlock it where as SMO gave players an alternative method of unlocking them meaning for a significant number of players the content is permanently locked in BOTW, it's a valid complaint.

Any complaint is valid to the person making it; my disagreement certainly doesn't invalidate your opinion.

However, I have a different opinion on it. Amiibo, while they are fun little figurines, have a main selling point of interacting with games. If they don't provide a unique or interesting bonus the Amiibo buyers feel cheated and if you lock too much behind Amiibos regular buyers of the game feel cheated. I think that exclusive cosmetics strike that balance very well as they aren't a game-changing feature, but a pleasant little bonus. Making those cosmetics available to everyone, losing the exclusivity of the amiibo reward,  tips that balance against the Amiibo buyers. And any amiibo content would have to be on disc. New games use earlier amiibo so the the data must be on the game and simply treat the amiibo as a key. Otherwise amiibo would be unable to interact with any game released after they were made. That's simple logistics, not an EA-level 'locking away part of the disc' move.



psychicscubadiver said:

Any complaint is valid to the person making it; my disagreement certainly doesn't invalidate your opinion.

However, I have a different opinion on it. Amiibo, while they are fun little figurines, have a main selling point of interacting with games. If they don't provide a unique or interesting bonus the Amiibo buyers feel cheated and if you lock too much behind Amiibos regular buyers of the game feel cheated. I think that exclusive cosmetics strike that balance very well as they aren't a game-changing feature, but a pleasant little bonus. Making those cosmetics available to everyone, losing the exclusivity of the amiibo reward,  tips that balance against the Amiibo buyers. And any amiibo content would have to be on disc. New games use earlier amiibo so the the data must be on the game and simply treat the amiibo as a key. Otherwise amiibo would be unable to interact with any game released after they were made. That's simple logistics, not an EA-level 'locking away part of the disc' move.

It is equivalent to EA though because ultimately it still locks content that is in the game that's why it comes across as anti consumer to people as the's no other way to access the content already there even though you've paid for the game, giving people options clearly is something Nintendo got the message on as they started doing it with the games that have come afterward like SMO. Imagine if Smash did the same with unlocking characters to get the point people are putting forward, I have several Amiibos I don't feel cheated if everyone has access to the content why? Because one I still have the collectible and two they work with multiple games.



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Wyrdness said:
psychicscubadiver said:

Any complaint is valid to the person making it; my disagreement certainly doesn't invalidate your opinion.

However, I have a different opinion on it. Amiibo, while they are fun little figurines, have a main selling point of interacting with games. If they don't provide a unique or interesting bonus the Amiibo buyers feel cheated and if you lock too much behind Amiibos regular buyers of the game feel cheated. I think that exclusive cosmetics strike that balance very well as they aren't a game-changing feature, but a pleasant little bonus. Making those cosmetics available to everyone, losing the exclusivity of the amiibo reward,  tips that balance against the Amiibo buyers. And any amiibo content would have to be on disc. New games use earlier amiibo so the the data must be on the game and simply treat the amiibo as a key. Otherwise amiibo would be unable to interact with any game released after they were made. That's simple logistics, not an EA-level 'locking away part of the disc' move.

It is equivalent to EA though because ultimately it still locks content that is in the game that's why it comes across as anti consumer to people as the's no other way to access the content already there even though you've paid for the game, giving people options clearly is something Nintendo got the message on as they started doing it with the games that have come afterward like SMO. Imagine if Smash did the same with unlocking characters to get the point people are putting forward, I have several Amiibos I don't feel cheated if everyone has access to the content why? Because one I still have the collectible and two they work with multiple games.

Then how should they include content for the Amiibos? It would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to include the content on the Amiibo themselves. And you've rather missed my point if you're making an analogy to Smash locking characters behind Amiibos. Fighters are a core part of gameplay and I said gameplay should not be locked behind Amiibos. However, cosmetics are perfectly fine to be exclusive. Not all content is equal and minor content like cosmetics is perfectly acceptable as exclusive in my opinion.



psychicscubadiver said:

Then how should they include content for the Amiibos? It would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to include the content on the Amiibo themselves. And you've rather missed my point if you're making an analogy to Smash locking characters behind Amiibos. Fighters are a core part of gameplay and I said gameplay should not be locked behind Amiibos. However, cosmetics are perfectly fine to be exclusive. Not all content is equal and minor content like cosmetics is perfectly acceptable as exclusive in my opinion.

The same way like in SMO they unlock content but players have other options.



Well at least we can all agree that Zelda is awesome.



Wyrdness said:
psychicscubadiver said:

Then how should they include content for the Amiibos? It would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to include the content on the Amiibo themselves. And you've rather missed my point if you're making an analogy to Smash locking characters behind Amiibos. Fighters are a core part of gameplay and I said gameplay should not be locked behind Amiibos. However, cosmetics are perfectly fine to be exclusive. Not all content is equal and minor content like cosmetics is perfectly acceptable as exclusive in my opinion.

The same way like in SMO they unlock content but players have other options.

See, but that removes any exclusivity to the amiibo content and imo devalues the amiibo content if you can just get it another way.



Ocarina of Time is now 20 years old.