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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Forbes: Is Microsoft in trouble?

kain_kusanagi said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kain_kusanagi said:
This guy seems to think that MS is trying to sprint to the finish line, but MS has always been the tortoise not the hare. Windows 8 and the Surface RT where just step one. Win Phone 8 and Surface Pro are step two. MS is trying to get PC users to get used to a mobile like interface. The general public who buys Dell and HP are all slowing converting to Win 8 and they will get used to it. When they decide to go buy a smart phone of a tablet they will already know how to use a Win Phone 8 and a Surface RT/Pro. Having the exact same interface and apps on all your devices is huge and will be what wins the race.

Oh and Bing is growing slowly as people realize it's better for searching and maps. XboxNext will almost definitely be a Windows RT machine with the desktop locked out so that yet another device that people will already know how to use since they learned Win 8 on their PC after buying a Dell.

It's a slow burn, but that's what MS does and it almost always works for them.


Actually Apple is the tortoise. Put in the amount of time Apple went head to head with Microsoft with their long monopoly. Apple proved that you can beat the swift giant in the long run. Microsoft can put their product into every PC, but Apple has their own PC with its own OS. Apple did what some thought was impossible and instead of going head to head on OS made a multimedia hub connecting all of their devices. Microsoft is late to the party and its not even as good. I wish Microsoft luck though, because competition is always good. I really dont want to hear about Microsofts shareholders conference this year, because it might get personal with some of the share holders. They can ignore the share holders for so long and when the shareholders say "I told you so" they will soon have nothing to say, but Balmer will try.

P.S.

In no way is Microsoft in trouble, they just need to get their act together.

Microsoft bailed Apple out when they were about to fold. I wouldn't say Apple was the tortoise, in fact I'd say in the early 90's Apple was the hare made too many mistakes and was about losing bad to the tortoise MS. MS was afraid that without Apple they would have anti-trust problems so they bought 49% of Apple which layed the foundation for Steve Jobs to rebuild, refocus, and make a comback. They bought the makers of the iPod, painted their computers cute colors, and switched from their buggy old System 9 OS to the Unix based buggy OSX. Those were apparently the right choices and I'm sure MS wished they handn't helped hold onto a competitor.


If Microsoft bailed out Apple that means Microsoft was the quickest to dominate. The hare would dominate the majority of the race, but eventually the tortoise would get there as long as it took.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
kain_kusanagi said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kain_kusanagi said:
This guy seems to think that MS is trying to sprint to the finish line, but MS has always been the tortoise not the hare. Windows 8 and the Surface RT where just step one. Win Phone 8 and Surface Pro are step two. MS is trying to get PC users to get used to a mobile like interface. The general public who buys Dell and HP are all slowing converting to Win 8 and they will get used to it. When they decide to go buy a smart phone of a tablet they will already know how to use a Win Phone 8 and a Surface RT/Pro. Having the exact same interface and apps on all your devices is huge and will be what wins the race.

Oh and Bing is growing slowly as people realize it's better for searching and maps. XboxNext will almost definitely be a Windows RT machine with the desktop locked out so that yet another device that people will already know how to use since they learned Win 8 on their PC after buying a Dell.

It's a slow burn, but that's what MS does and it almost always works for them.


Actually Apple is the tortoise. Put in the amount of time Apple went head to head with Microsoft with their long monopoly. Apple proved that you can beat the swift giant in the long run. Microsoft can put their product into every PC, but Apple has their own PC with its own OS. Apple did what some thought was impossible and instead of going head to head on OS made a multimedia hub connecting all of their devices. Microsoft is late to the party and its not even as good. I wish Microsoft luck though, because competition is always good. I really dont want to hear about Microsofts shareholders conference this year, because it might get personal with some of the share holders. They can ignore the share holders for so long and when the shareholders say "I told you so" they will soon have nothing to say, but Balmer will try.

P.S.

In no way is Microsoft in trouble, they just need to get their act together.

Microsoft bailed Apple out when they were about to fold. I wouldn't say Apple was the tortoise, in fact I'd say in the early 90's Apple was the hare made too many mistakes and was about losing bad to the tortoise MS. MS was afraid that without Apple they would have anti-trust problems so they bought 49% of Apple which layed the foundation for Steve Jobs to rebuild, refocus, and make a comback. They bought the makers of the iPod, painted their computers cute colors, and switched from their buggy old System 9 OS to the Unix based buggy OSX. Those were apparently the right choices and I'm sure MS wished they handn't helped hold onto a competitor.


If Microsoft bailed out Apple that means Microsoft was the quickest to dominate. The hare would dominate the majority of the race, but eventually the tortoise would get there as long as it took.


You should consider reading some about the early days of MS and Apple and their relationship. They both started out small. Microsoft did software and Apple did hardware and software. They both exploded as the PC market exploded. It really wasn't a matter of tortoise and hare back then, it was much more about being in the right place at the right time. They both got lucky that everyone and their mother wanted a PC. Once the explosion was over MS slowed down and Apple went into overdrive.

MS was all about Windows, IE, and Office while Apple tried to be in the cutting edge of everything from PCs and home consoles to digital cameras and software. The Great and Powerfull Steve Wozniak had left the company and Steve Jobs got fired by the same guy he hired. The company was sinking as fast and MS saved them with the money from the slow dependable IBM compatible PC market.

Since after MS saved the day Apple hasn't slowed down, they've just gotten smarter about what races to enter. MS have become more bullish but it's still rare for them to trailblaze. For example MS did not pick a side in the HD formate war and instead stuck with the cheap and dependable DVD as the built in drive for the Xbox 360. Now that Blu-Ray is the clear winner the Nextbox is rumored to include it. Apple puts out a new iPhone or iPad every 6-12 months just to add a new feature or technology so they can stay at the cutting edge.



while Steve Ballmer is a ridiculous person, this article is even more ridiculous.



ArnoldRimmer said:

nightsurge said:
Wow what a FAIL article...

1. - Claiming MS has only 20% marketshare now, down from 95% in 2005? What a misleading load of bullocks! MS still maintains a 92% desktop OS marketshare! This guy is clearly lumping all of the mobile/tablet OS's into the mix to make MS look terrible! If we do that, MS again has grown in marketshare since Windows 8, Windows Phone 8 are gainingpopularity (albeit slowly) in the mobile/tablet space.


Those are the 2 main glaring mistakes from the article. Since 007BondAgent was asking what was so inaccurate.

That "20% market share" number is most probably a quote from that Goldman Sachs/IDC study from early December.

http://seattletimes.com/html/microsoftpri0/2019853243_goldman_sachs_microsoft_os_has_gone_from_more_than.html

Goldman Sachs / IDC decided that being 2012, it's getting more and more inappropriate/unrealistic to consider desktop PCs as the only relevant type of computing device. So they decided that from now on, they don't exclusively look at desktop PCs to judge market share, but also smartphones, tablets etc.

So instead of exclusively looking at numbers that still look favourable for Microsoft, these evil Microsoft-haters at IDC / Goldman Sachs decided to adopt their criteria to real-world scenarios.

 

Seriously: The article may be very exaggerated, but the general consensus is right. Their golden age is over, Microsoft is in slow decline and trouble. They key to Microsoft's success has always been the power that came with being able to early establish a monopoly in the desktop OS segment. Their desktop OS monopoly helped them establish an Office Suite monopoly as well, and now I have already mentioned the only two products that Microsoft is extremely successful with. These two product are Microsoft's cash cows; responsible for the majority of Microsoft's profits. The customers simply didn't have any realistic alternatives. But with desktop PCs slowly but constantly becoming redundant, so is Microsoft. When customers actually have a choice, most don't pick the overpriced proprietary Microsoft product,

Where the article is completely wrong however is when it comes to the speed of that process. It's going to be slower, Microsoft will not set half their employees off in the next two or three years!

As long as you have college and univeristy students, you need MS Office. More often then not, you need a laptop on the go and a office PC for your essays. Businesses usually gravitate towards MS for their laptops and PCs. In that regard MS has a 90+ % market share.

Tablets just cant cut it beyond casual note taking.As long as you have students and business.....two things that are NEVER going away, MS is just fine.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

007BondAgent said:
 

i thought the 360 was making a profit :/ although the article states otherwise.. is there any truth to that?


The Entertainment and Online services divisions are making regular losses or only small gains, they are currently the weakest sectors. If the Nexbox is a money looser (expensive hardware sold at a loss) from the start it could spell the end of the gaming division in time



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Rab said:
007BondAgent said:
 

i thought the 360 was making a profit :/ although the article states otherwise.. is there any truth to that?


The Entertainment and Online services divisions are making regular losses or only small gains, they are currently the weakest sectors. If the Nexbox is a money looser (expensive hardware sold at a loss) from the start it could spell the end of the gaming division in time

MS is a bigger company than sony. And yet  Sony's gaming division has only been making small gains and huge losses. It hasn't disbanded yet. Then you came in here sayingthat the next box would cripple MS to the point of disbanding their gaming division? Haha.. no



Yay!!!

S.T.A.G.E. said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Microsoft bailed Apple out when they were about to fold. I wouldn't say Apple was the tortoise, in fact I'd say in the early 90's Apple was the hare made too many mistakes and was about losing bad to the tortoise MS. MS was afraid that without Apple they would have anti-trust problems so they bought 49% of Apple which layed the foundation for Steve Jobs to rebuild, refocus, and make a comback. They bought the makers of the iPod, painted their computers cute colors, and switched from their buggy old System 9 OS to the Unix based buggy OSX. Those were apparently the right choices and I'm sure MS wished they handn't helped hold onto a competitor.


If Microsoft bailed out Apple that means Microsoft was the quickest to dominate. The hare would dominate the majority of the race, but eventually the tortoise would get there as long as it took.

This is actually a ridiculous urban legend.

Microsoft bought a measly 7% of Apple ($150 million) in non-voting shares, but this was not the primary financial contribution to Apple's recovery.  The truth is that Apple caught Microsoft with their hand in the patent cookie jar (old habits die hard).  Back then, Office wasn't yet irrelevant for 80% of the world, and Jobs realized that Apple could not afford a drawn out lawsuit, so rather than sue, he negotiated a major multipart deal with Microsoft.  The $150 million investment was just a small piece of it.  There was also a 5-year patent cross-license with Microsoft paying ongoing royalties to Apple (since this amount remained undisclosed, it is rumoured to be much larger than the investment).

By far more significant to Apple was that Microsoft agreed to update Mac Office regularly for the next 5 years (not many people know that a clause in the agreement actually let Microsoft off the hook a couple years early, but they still make a version of Office for Mac today).  This PR value was worth far more to Apple than that token investment.  Meanwhile Microsoft won some concessions from Apple with regard to Internet Explorer and Java (at the time, Microsoft viewed Java and Netscape, not Apple, as the major threats to their hegemony).

Microsoft sold off their shares long ago (some idiots even believe they still own 49% of Apple, which is probably worth more than all of Microsoft now), and Apple mainly stayed afloat during its struggling period by gradually selling off their share of a partnership began in the late '80s that was growing enormously in value: ARM.  Yes, the same processor family that powers iPhones, iPads, 99% of Androids and WinPhones, DS, 3DS, Vita, and Windows RT -- thus arguably the dominant processor on the planet -- was once maybe 40%-owned by Apple (don't have the exact percentage but it was still over 16% in 1999).  Apple used it for the ill-fated Newton and later the not-so-ill-fated iPod.

Ok, random useless computer history trivia time: who knows what ancient line of Apple products actually used a CPU from AMD?  (ATI GPUs do not count.)



not buying into any of it. MS will be fine. MS will find bread and butter some place else.



May be a little exaggerated but this article speaks the truth. Microsoft isn't competitive in the smartphone market and Windows isn't what is used to be. I think the proof of this is in Microsoft starting to move from a software company to a hardware company. It hasn't paid off yet. Surface hasn't taken off and both Xbox and Xbox 360 lost them billions.

LOL @ the thing about selling Xbox division to Sony though.



Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
Rab said:
007BondAgent said:
 

i thought the 360 was making a profit :/ although the article states otherwise.. is there any truth to that?


The Entertainment and Online services divisions are making regular losses or only small gains, they are currently the weakest sectors. If the Nexbox is a money looser (expensive hardware sold at a loss) from the start it could spell the end of the gaming division in time

MS is a bigger company than sony. And yet  Sony's gaming division has only been making small gains and huge losses. It hasn't disbanded yet. Then you came in here sayingthat the next box would cripple MS to the point of disbanding their gaming division? Haha.. no

It wont cripple MS, I didnt say that, don't make stuff up just to make a point

But if MS decide to tighten up, the Entertainment and Online Services may be short listed particularly if the 720 make losses because of subsidised hardware