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Forums - Politics - Well, so much for people thinking they should train as nurses...

richardhutnik on 14 January 2013
Kasz216 said:

I think to look at why 40% don't get jobs, you need to look at why 60% do.

 

It could be that 40% that can't get jobs, can't do so for very good reasons.  They come from awful schools, had awful grades, didn't do any extracricular prep, can't speak any foreign lanugages...


For example if you don't speak Spanish you are going to have a HELL of a time getting a job working anywhere as a nurse in the southwest.

 

Generally the "2 years expierence" labels are totally negotiable as long as you have an impressive resume and can impress in an interview.

I think it is important try to sort things further then just do a blanket, "Well, it is easy to explain".  It places are flat out advertising "no college graduates" then it doesn't matter what rthe grades are.



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NintendoPie on 14 January 2013

My cousin got an ER Nursing job lickety-split! (Right after she got out of College, if you aren't catching my drift.)

It depends on how well trained you are, not that they don't need anymore nurses.



thranx on 14 January 2013
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:

This is a problem endemic to the entire hiring market. Everyone complains that they can't find good help. No-one is willing to *make* good help.

Even if i weren't someone whose life was directly effected by this mentality, you would figure something's gotta give somewhere.


It's too expensive to make these kinds of risks. Unexperienced workers have been priced out of the market. It can take months of training to bring an unexperienced worker up to scratch - which lowers both their productivity and the productivity of their team members (who take time out from their actual job to train the newbie).

Not to mention the risk, because unexperienced workers are risky. They're use to short days, long lunches, and long holidays. They're use to the stimulation changing every hour or so. They're used to essentially unfettered, constant, socialising. My father (an employer) comments on how when he hires school-leavers, they tend to take more sick days, make more concentration-related mistakes, are less punctual, spend more time on the toilet, etc. They're also far more likely to drop out of a job they don't like.

This is why unexperienced workers can't get work. When you fix prices, you distort the market. The ironic thing is, it's the very policies you advocate, that have kept you out of work.

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.


You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.



Mr Khan on 14 January 2013
thranx said:
Mr Khan said:

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.


You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.

I think it's easier to point fingers at the private sector in this case. They want the perfect candidate, and refuse to see anything otherwise. If i wanted the perfect job and refused to even look at anything else, people would tell me "suck it up and take what's there."

So too should the private sector. Suck it up and hire people instead of thinking the perfect candidate exists. We may not be perfect, but there are many of us out here who could be damn good workers, and in time become "perfect."



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

thranx on 15 January 2013
Mr Khan said:
thranx said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.


You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.

I think it's easier to point fingers at the private sector in this case. They want the perfect candidate, and refuse to see anything otherwise. If i wanted the perfect job and refused to even look at anything else, people would tell me "suck it up and take what's there."

So too should the private sector. Suck it up and hire people instead of thinking the perfect candidate exists. We may not be perfect, but there are many of us out here who could be damn good workers, and in time become "perfect."

Exactly, take the easy way out. Thats the mentality of most people i know who can't find jobs. It is easier to point the finger at the private sector, but that does not make it true. Better to point the finger at themselves and see what they are missing that the private sector wants. 

 

The private secotr is taking whats there. If they need someone they will hire them. But there is no need for them to hire somebody they feel wont be worth it.



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richardhutnik on 15 January 2013
thranx said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:

This is a problem endemic to the entire hiring market. Everyone complains that they can't find good help. No-one is willing to *make* good help.

Even if i weren't someone whose life was directly effected by this mentality, you would figure something's gotta give somewhere.


It's too expensive to make these kinds of risks. Unexperienced workers have been priced out of the market. It can take months of training to bring an unexperienced worker up to scratch - which lowers both their productivity and the productivity of their team members (who take time out from their actual job to train the newbie).

Not to mention the risk, because unexperienced workers are risky. They're use to short days, long lunches, and long holidays. They're use to the stimulation changing every hour or so. They're used to essentially unfettered, constant, socialising. My father (an employer) comments on how when he hires school-leavers, they tend to take more sick days, make more concentration-related mistakes, are less punctual, spend more time on the toilet, etc. They're also far more likely to drop out of a job they don't like.

This is why unexperienced workers can't get work. When you fix prices, you distort the market. The ironic thing is, it's the very policies you advocate, that have kept you out of work.

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.


You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.

I I made the front page of the local paper landing the job I do now.  So, did I suddently become more hard working that it enabled me to find a job, than before when I hadn't?  For professional reasons I am not going into rate of pay and so on either.  

Reality is far more complicated than people make it out to be, including yourself with that.  The reality with college education is that it doesn't guarantee anything but can prevent peple from going anywhere without it.



thranx on 15 January 2013
richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:

This is a problem endemic to the entire hiring market. Everyone complains that they can't find good help. No-one is willing to *make* good help.

Even if i weren't someone whose life was directly effected by this mentality, you would figure something's gotta give somewhere.


It's too expensive to make these kinds of risks. Unexperienced workers have been priced out of the market. It can take months of training to bring an unexperienced worker up to scratch - which lowers both their productivity and the productivity of their team members (who take time out from their actual job to train the newbie).

Not to mention the risk, because unexperienced workers are risky. They're use to short days, long lunches, and long holidays. They're use to the stimulation changing every hour or so. They're used to essentially unfettered, constant, socialising. My father (an employer) comments on how when he hires school-leavers, they tend to take more sick days, make more concentration-related mistakes, are less punctual, spend more time on the toilet, etc. They're also far more likely to drop out of a job they don't like.

This is why unexperienced workers can't get work. When you fix prices, you distort the market. The ironic thing is, it's the very policies you advocate, that have kept you out of work.

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.


You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.

I I made the front page of the local paper landing the job I do now.  So, did I suddently become more hard working that it enabled me to find a job, than before when I hadn't?  For professional reasons I am not going into rate of pay and so on either.  

Reality is far more complicated than people make it out to be, including yourself with that.  The reality with college education is that it doesn't guarantee anything but can prevent peple from going anywhere without it.

Perhaps you changed in the course of your job search. Perhaps you made your self more appealing by hitting the streets and finding work. Looking for work is hard work. Perhaps you took a job that at the begining of your job search seemed not good enough. I dont know your personal situation. But my point was that its easy to blame someone else, but most problems for people finding work come from the choices they have made. Wether it be to get a degree in something useless. Not working through school so they have experience along with an eduation. Drugs. Drinking. Smoking. Breaking the law. But to blame employers for not hiring people not up to their standards is not right.



SamuelRSmith on 15 January 2013
Mr Khan said:

Price fixing only takes place at the very bottom. The jobs i want aren't hiring me and people like me because of their own ineptitude.

It's as FamousRingo described: the private sector has somehow managed to create a labor shortage in a down market because they refuse to invest in labor, because they are way too picky and demanding.

False. When you increase the cost of employment, you do so for everybody. Taxes, and regulations, increase the burden of cost for everybody. Ergo, the shortage happens throughout the market, and it primarily affects the under-experienced, like yourself.

Besides, if you're half as smart as you say you are, you should start your own business. With your genius hiring policies, you'd be the most profitable company in US history in NO time, right?



dsgrue3 on 15 January 2013
thranx said:
You sure its not the fact that public schools and college education no longer mean you know anything as they graduate everybody. Its easy to point fingers, but most peoples problems start with themselves. I have yet to see motivated hard working people not find jobs, and I have seen plenty of slackers stay unemployed for months or years.

I can't speak in general, but in engineering there is a 50% retention rate from freshman to sophomore year, and more so beyond that so your point is at the very least blatantly false for that field.



sales2099 on 15 January 2013

Yup. Saturated markets suck for newcomers.



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