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Forums - General - If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

 

Are you for or against gay marriage?

For 290 49.49%
 
Against 171 29.18%
 
don't know 16 2.73%
 
whatever who cares? 108 18.43%
 
Total:585
Michael-5 said:

For someone whose volunteered in sex clinics and mental health centers (CAMH in Canada), I'm againt homosexuality because it is a psychological disorder classified as "Sexual Orientation Disturbance" in the DSG III "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

It was reclassified as "Sexual disorder not otherwise specified" in 1987 due to popitical reasons (Gay people were being killed in the USA for being Gay, while the act of homosexuallity is not dangerous outside of the spreading of STD's). I'm not sure if it was ever removed entirely.

 

However Gay Marriage, I'm fine with. We have no cure for homosexuality, we don't even know the cause of it, and most treatments supress all sexual urges, not just homosexual ones (however that is begining to change). Since we have no cure for a non harmful psychological illness, then why should gay people be refused marriage? We might not find a cure for 50 more years, and that's longer then most marriages.

Also because it's a non-threating or violoent, and livable sexual disorder, if a cure were to ever become invented, it's the homosexuals choice to use it or not. So, if a cure comes up in 10 years, there is no reason why gay marriages should not be honored.

 

So Homosexuality, I'm against, it's a disorder, simple as that.

Homosexual behavior, I am indifferent to, however I do want to push safe sex between these people because not all homosexuals are purely homosexual, and STD's can spread to the heterosexual community.

Gay Marriage, I'm all for, keeps the STD's isolated LOL. No, they can do what they like.

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in its fourth version states clearly that homosexuality isn't a pathology, and the recent fifth version emphasized that. The ICD (the international version of the of the DSM) also doesn't classify homosexuality as a pathology. But whatever suits your case I guess.



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If I recall correctly, homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1974 (I'm guessing Michael-5 meant DSM, not DSG, or perhaps he misspelled it), and replaced with "sexual orientation disturbance". I think that "sexual orientation disturbance" was removed in 1987 (with the revision of the second edition), where its remnants were placed under an ambiguous category called "sexual disorder not otherwise specified".

I honestly do not think that people in the mental health field still consider homosexuality a disorder.



timmah said:

Obstaining from an activity is not the same as engaging in an activity that is counter to the natural purpose of the activity, so I wouldn't see a good argument for Monks having a disorder. I do think calling homosexuality a disorder could be an overly broad application of the term, but still there are interesting points to be made either way.

Here is the definition of disorder you presented: 

"A medical condition involving a disturbance to the usual functioning of the mind or body."

How does abstinence not satisfy this definition?



There should be no role of the state in marriage between two (or more) consenting adults. So gays should be able to find a lawyer - create a contractual document in which they make an agreement called "marriage" and hold a ceremony if they pleased. It's a private deal which government should not have any role in. On the other-hand, why a gay person would want to get "married" in the traditional sense, I have no idea, but it's not my place to mandate and dictate the private lives of others. We have a thing in this country called "liberty" and that means people are capable of self-government and are not slaves of others.



Jay520 said:
timmah said:

Obstaining from an activity is not the same as engaging in an activity that is counter to the natural purpose of the activity, so I wouldn't see a good argument for Monks having a disorder. I do think calling homosexuality a disorder could be an overly broad application of the term, but still there are interesting points to be made either way.

Here is the definition of disorder you presented: 

"A medical condition involving a disturbance to the usual functioning of the mind or body."

How does abstinence not satisfy this definition?

Because their natural attractions would theoretically lead them to procreate if acted upon, they are making a purposeful conscious choice for some other reason, it is not necessarily something that is 'hard wired' into their mental process.

Again, this is all for the sake of argument as I don't really have a solid opinion one way or the other.

Edit: Just realized I originally spelled Abstain with an O, haha!



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Jay520 said:
Michael-5 said:

For someone whose volunteered in sex clinics and mental health centers (CAMH in Canada), I'm againt homosexuality because it is a psychological disorder classified as "Sexual Orientation Disturbance" in the DSG III "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Also because it's a non-threating or violoent, and livable sexual disorder, if a cure were to ever become invented, it's the homosexuals choice to use it or not. So, if a cure comes up in 10 years, there is no reason why gay marriages should not be honored.

So Homosexuality, I'm against, it's a disorder, simple as that.


Please explain to me how homosexuality is a psychological disorder. A psychological disorder usually must either 1.) prevent the person from functioning in society, 2.) cause the person discomfort, or 3.) endanger the self or others. Homosexuality satisfies none of those criteria, so how exactly is it a psychological disorder?

You could say homosexuality is a psychological disorder because it's uncommon. Well, if that's your criteria of a psychological disorder, then you must also classify left-handed people or monks as having a psychological disorder, merely because they are uncommon. By that token, are you 'against' left-handedness as well? Probably not.

So what is it about homosexuals that you're against that you can't say the same about other uncommon people (like left-handed people, and monks)?


He is talking about a very old outdated DSM version that the US physicians don't use anymore, the DSM was updated several times since then. The word homosexuality isn't probably even mentioned in the latest version. The new word used now is MSM or men who have sex with men. 



timmah said:

Because their natural attractions would theoretically lead them to procreate if acted upon, they are making a purposeful conscious choice for some other reason, it is not necessarily something that is 'hard wired' into their mental process.


Theoretically, maybe, maybe not. I'm not too sure on the inner desire of monks, but I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find plenty of cases with experienced monks who have trained themselves to rid themselves of their sexual urges. Theoretically, would these monks have a disorder?



Jay520 said:

timmah said:

Because their natural attractions would theoretically lead them to procreate if acted upon, they are making a purposeful conscious choice for some other reason, it is not necessarily something that is 'hard wired' into their mental process.


Theoretically, maybe, maybe not. I'm not too sure on the inner desire of monks, but I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find plenty of cases with experienced monks who have trained themselves to rid themselves of their sexual urges. Theoretically, would these monks have a disorder?

A disorder is generally something that exists in and of itself or is due to outside causes, not usually something you would 'train' yourself to do or think, so not a disorder in that case. No fun though for sure.



timmah said:

A disorder is generally something that exists in and of itself or is due to outside causes, not usually something you would 'train' yourself to do or think, so not a disorder in that case. No fun though for sure.


Seems like an arbitrary point. I'm not really sure how that's important. If someone became schizophrenia due to their own actions/thoughts, would they no longer suffer from a disorder?



Let's assume homosexuality is a disorder? Does that make it any more valid to take away their rights? Disorder only means abnormal. For example, I have Asperger's Syndrome. That means I have a social disorder. Should my rights be restricted because I have an ASD? What about people with learning impairments, but are otherwise perfectly functional? Should their rights be restricted? There is a clear distinction between a disorder and a mental illness.