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Forums - Politics - American Farming subsidies to end- Obama worst president ever?

Kasz216 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
I blame video games

If someone ever makes Obama: The Video Game..that will be the biggest offender of all things in this world as we know it


http://superobamaworld.com/

haha guess this explains the mayan stuff lol



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Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
famousringo said:
Kasz216 said:

 

@outlawauron

 


Oh this isn't farm subsidies ending anyway, what the one guy above said is right, I looked it up, and basically what happened is right after WW2 a law passed setting the price of milk.

Essentially Milk isn't sold like a regular product, it's essentially sold "Communist" style.   The government buys the milk from the producers then sells it to the market... pricefixing what milk can be sold for.

The Farm bills have temporary measures in them that make the price they pay cheaper then what the 1949 law says we should pay, which had inflation adjustments in it.

So really the government would just be way overpaying farmers for milk, then way overcharging supermarkets, who would be forced to pay because well... all milk is sold through the state.

 

Essentially it's a case of

A) The government being too stupid to repeal laws and instead layer dumb laws on top of other dumb laws.

B) More or less a perfect arguement for why the free market system works way better then state run goverment price controls.

Well, when price controls are there to set a fair rate and not just give a huge handout to the farm lobby while screwing everyone else over. The idea of price controls is to stop things from getting too expensive, not to keep things very expensive


You'd think that, but actually price controls tend to make things worse... espiecally on the poor.   Price controls are implemented this generally happens in a supply low area.  

So say we put price controls on power generators in florida right after a storm, with the government making up the rest in subsidies or price control supports.   What you do is, you greatly increase the demand, and make the shortage worse and more and more people want it.   This drives up it's "true" value, and drives up it's "Black market" value even more!

So what happens is, suddenly people WITH genertors start waiting in lines already.  They dont need them but they know the black market price is huge so they can make a killing, so they stand in line.   This ends up increasing demand, and the prices even more... to the point of where most people probably aren't even buying the to use, but to resell.

 

Now who's waiting for these price controlled products.  Those who can afford to, the working poor are working and they can't.  The non-working poor can't afford it.  So it's usually middle class stay at home parents/partners, people who have flexible work schedules, and then people paid to shop for those people and the rich.

 

All price controls do, is allow the middle class to screw the poor harder then companies would have.   This gets even worse if the price controls aren't funded with price supports because suppliers will drop out of the market.



spaceguy said:
Marks said:
spaceguy said:
Marks said:
Good about time, now if we just end college subsidies.

End college subsidies -> Lower enrolment in colleges -> Supply becomes greater than demand > Price of school drops NATURALLY

The market does a better job than the government.


LOL What???

Bull sh-t. LOL


Everything in the world is supply and demand my good man. 

More college subsidies (cheaper school) -> increased demand & higher enrolment -> Demand becomes greater than supply (schools can only fit so many students) -> Prices of school goes up -> enrolment drops (as less kids can afford college) -> More college subsidies.....

....endless cycle until subsidies stop

Which part of that made no sense? It's economics 101. 


Educating your people is one of the biggest economic investments you can make. How about we just completely make school public and private sector can't join. There the ones looking for a profit. I like  how you just skipped tons of data that says your completely wrong. LOL

 it's your economics. The student will later make good money which creates more demand.

Okay I'm tired (it's 2:30 am) so I'm just going to post a lazy response. I disagree, private/charter schools have proven themselves much more effective than government education time and time again (look at charter schools in the DC area...they fucking smoke public schools in terms of student success). If education was privatized, the competition between schools would give incentive for them to be run efficiently, providing the best education for as little cost as possible. And the best thing about private schools is that bad teachers could be fired, and good teachers could be rewarded (the quality of education would rise substantially)...unlike the current system that is controlled by the teacher's union and bad/good teachers are paid the same... and there is no bonus/reward for good teachers.

Yeah I can't argue there, a degree definitely means higher income on average, which means more taxes/contribution back to society. But if everyone has a degree then a degree loses it's value (same thing as currency...you print more money and the value of the dollar drops, it doesn't stay the same)...you'll have people with business degrees flipping burgers and serving ice cream. The bar has been raised so high that you need a degree just to be equal to your peers nowadays...you are no longer getting ahead by having one. 

I think charter schools and the abolishment of the teacher's union (or at least a substantial reduction in their power) are a fair compromise in the public/private school debate. Have every school privatized...but use the current money that would have gone to pay for government schools and give that money to the parents of the children (school vouchers, essentially)...and let the parents decide which school their kid will go to...instead of just forcing children to go to the school that is in their district like it is now. This gives families the advantage of having choice, while still having school paid for through collective taxation. 



Baalzamon said:
DirtyP2002 said:

because there is no competition between farmers?

Explain how you feel competition will affect this?


Simple: It is a market like polypol-market. You have a lot of producers, which produce more or less the same product (farmers / milk) and you have a lot of consumers. The farmers compete with each other --> that will have an impact on the price.

You just can't sell your product fo $29 when everyone else is selling it for $20. This is macroeconomics so ignore those local, time, taste preferences. Your not going to sell one gallon. If you offer it for $19 though, you will sell all your supply.



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DirtyP2002 said:
Baalzamon said:
DirtyP2002 said:

because there is no competition between farmers?

Explain how you feel competition will affect this?


Simple: It is a market like polypol-market. You have a lot of producers, which produce more or less the same product (farmers / milk) and you have a lot of consumers. The farmers compete with each other --> that will have an impact on the price.

You just can't sell your product fo $29 when everyone else is selling it for $20. This is macroeconomics so ignore those local, time, taste preferences. Your not going to sell one gallon. If you offer it for $19 though, you will sell all your supply.

The problem is though that Milk has a price floor set by the government.  So you by law can't sell your milk for less.

That's the issue.  The pricefloor woud quadruple if this doesn't pass.



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One other thing I wanted to mention that I'm not entirely certain on the price "doubling". I'm not sure that it isn't the government covering the difference in each gallon of milk versus what the cooperatives would have paid.

Meaning cooperatives may still pay just $19-$20 per hundred pounds, and the government will subsidize the excess.

So we will indirectly pay considerably more for milk (via taxes), but the store prices will not change. As I said, I'm not certain on this, however.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
One other thing I wanted to mention that I'm not entirely certain on the price "doubling". I'm not sure that it isn't the government covering the difference in each gallon of milk versus what the cooperatives would have paid.

Meaning cooperatives may still pay just $19-$20 per hundred pounds, and the government will subsidize the excess.

So we will indirectly pay considerably more for milk (via taxes), but the store prices will not change. As I said, I'm not certain on this, however.


Actually after reading from about a dozen different sources... I found out what happens is that actually the government fixes the price by essentially buying milk products until the price of milk gets high enough.

 

So the secretary of Agriculture would essnetially order the government to buy milk products (preferably ones that don't spoil) until the price of dairy goes up.

So essentially, the government would have to buy a shitload of cheese and dry milk and such.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/29/the-milk-cliff-explained-why-a-gallon-may-soon-hit-7.html

 

Which is... just so silly you can't help but not believe it.



At least, the Mexican and Carribean farmers have a chance to sell their produce to you now.



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Kasz216 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
I blame video games

If someone ever makes Obama: The Video Game..that will be the biggest offender of all things in this world as we know it


http://superobamaworld.com/

just as good as super mario world was



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030