| RenderMonk said: BLAH BLAH BLAH |
"Faith: Not wanting to know what is true."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Player1x3 said:
Like I said before, it really depends on how you define religious practicing. For me personally, going to church for example every Sunday isnt really a religious practicing. Its more like religious worship or religious study IMO. But I dont see how the second result points out the flaw in Christianity in any way, really. |
The second result says that nothing gained from outer influences cannot affect your chances of entering heaven, since that would give an unfair advantage to those who are exposed to "better" influences. And everything regarding religious practicing is the result of outer influences. Without them, you would have no knowledge of the Bible or anything else regarding Christianity.
In other words, God doesn't care how much or how little you practise the Christian faith. Your "heart" is what truly matters.
Player1x3 said:
So how come you're an atheist if your family is Christian? |
That doesn't rule out the fact that outer influences have had massive effects on my opinion and the choices that I have made in my life. If outer influences could be disregarded using your free will, then we wouldn't have a middle east with 99% muslims. Their environment and upbringing is the result of that.
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
In other words, God doesn't care how much or how little you practise the Christian faith. Your "heart" is what truly matters. |
Bolded: I agree with that. Altho, if you have a good heart, i think the chances are, you already practice/d Christian faith in some way, regardless if you aimed to do so.
Underlined: So you think if someone wasnt born in a christian enviorment/under christian circumstances, you cant possibly discover Christian religion?
Player1x3 said:
Statistics wouldnt disprove my point. 1 person is enough to prove me right. What matters is that there is always a way for people to succeed, not the actual rate of sucess. |
So it doesn't matter if a lot of people under certain circumstances are more likely to commit crime, as long as one is a good person, the circumstances doesn't matter? It doesn't matter what religion a society has because it's all up to the individual and what parents believe doesn't have any influence of a person's fundemental values at all?
You are basically saying that as long as there is one Japanese christian, the rest of Japan, the least religiois place on earth has themselves to blame for the afterlife that they get because they all made their individual desicions, over all these years, in the same place. The Aztecs are all doomed because their tradition to sacrifice humans had nothing to do with their individual desicions to sacrifice humans.
Your viewpoint is not only wrong, it is immoral, and any society with that unrealistic outlook on statistics would be a horrible place to live.
I LOVE ICELAND!
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
|
That doesnt mean that they have to remain muslim. They are born into a muslim enviorment, but that doesnt seal their fate to remain like that forever. They are able to change, despite their enviorment
None of you have addressed the fallacy of judgement from an omniscient being.
From birth your judgement would be sealed as any decision ever made would already be known to such a being.
"Free will" and omniscience cannot co-exist. Sorry Christians.
| RenderMonk said: It's a shame people take this so lightly. Some of the reply's to the OP are just plain mockery. Here you have someone legitimately laying out their delima, and you have nothing more constructive to add than "ShhhHHHH! Let them have their fun." or "Then you should have won the Scrabble game." If you have nothing constructive to contribute, than be an onlooker. Don't tack on your useless drivel of a comment, just because the topic makes you uncomfortable. To the OP, I'm really sorry to hear that situation is one you (or a friend) is afflicted with. The truth of the matter is that professing with your mouth, and believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord, is the only way to heaven. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, none shall reach the father (being God) accept through me. We were never told that this life would be easy, that's a common misconception. In fact, he tells us that as our relationship with him grows deeper, the more persecution will befall us. That's in part to do with the spiritual warfare going on around us everyday, and in part because of the sinful world we live in (and the sinful people that live in it). Take this as an opportunity to witness to your parents, and use the support of your neighbors that are around you to keep you strong. I know it's easy to say something like that, when I'm not in your shoes, but believe me, we all face trials and tribulations, it's how we handle them that produce character and faith. A good verse for you to learn and carry with you may be from the book of James Chapter 1 verses 2-3 "Consider it pure joy my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds. Because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance." We are given free will to choose. God is a fair and just and almighty God. Trust that he loves you. You cannot get to heaven by works (being a good person). Read your Bible daily and spend as much time as you can with your neighbors that support you. Pray for wisdom and strength, and God will reveal to you the way to reach your parents. Don't despair, you'd be surprised at how the Lord can work in peoples lives, and just when you least expect it, something miraculous will happen in your life/situations. Bless you, and I'll remember to pray for you. |
Before I say anything else: Thank you for this respectful response and for all the kind words.
On topic: I see you believe that everyone need to accept Jesus as their savior. But then let me ask you this: Why force people who are aware of him to do that now? Why not wait until after death, which is the only possible state where you are able to gain true, perfectly unbiased and untampered knowledge about who Jesus was, what he did, and what he wants? Now everyone live in very different conditions which tampers with their knowledge and their free will, which is why I say it is unfair to judge people based on how they lived their lives. I.e., had the same person been born in a different family living in a different country, chances could possibly have been greater for him to enter heaven. If chances really wouldn't change no matter where the person was born or whatever upbringing he had to endure though, that would make it a fair system: The person would be judged for the "true" free parts of his will, and religious practicing would not matter. Being a good person at heart would then be the only way of entering heaven.
For God to make a fair final judgement, all that is taught by outer influences and all actions and opinions that you have shaped based on them would need to be disregarded, as I see it.
| dsgrue3 said: None of you have addressed the fallacy of judgement from an omniscient being. From birth your judgement would be sealed as any decision ever made would already be known to such a being. "Free will" and omniscience cannot co-exist. Sorry Christians. |
It doesn't work quite like that. God's knowing, doesn't affect your choosing.
Player1x3 said:
That doesnt mean that they have to remain muslim. They are born into a muslim enviorment, but that doesnt seal their fate to remain like that forever. They are able to change, despite their enviorment |
So your seriously believe that those 99% have the ability to convert to Christianity but choose not to using their free will, and that God might send them to hell for making that decision?
That would make God cruel. Unless, of course, Result 2 is how God really judges you, and that whichever religion you practise or believe in doesn't matter.
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