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Forums - Politics Discussion - Gun control debate issues that bother me. Will Libertarians and Republicans please address these?

El_Machete said:
the only gun control that should exist is a total control ban. Soldiers and police man should be the only ones with access to guns, period.

I don't want my child going to a school where the teacher and principal are armed.

Yes people kill people, and the gun are only the tool. You can't predict when another crazy person decides to kill again, but you can restrict his access to the tool.

The police in the United States murder over 500 people a year with guns, and it's an increasing number.

How many people are murdered by American solders?

Why the hell do you trust the Government with guns?



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I struggle with this issue as a libertarian as I believe strongly in the rule of the individual and personal responsibility, but these horrible killings truly wound my soul. When I remove the emotion from the equation I understand that removing guns doesn't end the violence. People don't kill because a weapon is available people create weapons to kill, the weapon is merely the tool.

I would like to see more effort put into early detection of mental disorders and stricter laws on who can purchase a firearm,although the latter will have little effect. I also think requiring storing AR at public armory's and shooting ranges, would be a reasonable restriction.

But I keep coming back to mental health and quite frankly parenting. I know relatives that allow their 5 year olds to play violent shooters and it shocks me as a parent. I would never allow a child of any age play these games, we try to justify it by saying it doesn't affect them but I think we are only kidding ourselves. The responsibilities of the parent and frankly the responsibility of the government to allow parents to act against their children they know may need to be institutionalized is very important.



Scoobes said:
Kasz216 said:
Lafiel said:
Marks said:
If we take guns away from citizens...it gives way more power to both police/government as well as criminals/cartels.

I just want my safety in my hands, not in the hands of the police. There is only so much the police can do, there are more criminals than cops out there.

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?

yea, if native americans had had guns they might not have suffered genocide by european settlers

If they had more guns it certaintly would of helped stopping that.  However actually Native American's were on a HUGE decline before we ever even got there.

Little known fact but Native American populations used to be so large that some climate scientists think that it was their development of North America that caused the medievil warming period, as they deforested too much of North America causes an increase in global temperatures.

The vikings and I think a couple other civilizations tried to settle America way before then and the Native Americans kicked there ass.

By the time the English and French got there they had been horribly wiped out by some great plague or another, and settlers were shocked at how there just seemed to be huge swarths of land that were just made for settlement. (but empty.)

 

The Native American populations had died off due to great diseases as well as droughts... caused by their own rapid deforestation of North America.

Some interesting stuff there... a little off topic but you have any references I could look at Kaz?

Not off hand, but this article i found real quick seems pretty good.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/335168/description/Columbus_arrival_linked_to_carbon_dioxide_drop



^^^They deforested themselves to extinction!? Uh Uh

 

Our genocide of the buffalo and military grads getting manifest destiny on their asses.. If the natives had guns they wouldnt be nearly extinct. End of discussion



Soleron said:
On: "Ignore the issue"

How many people die a year in these mass shootings? Average 5 or 10? That's not even worth legislating about. I don't think they'll stop but restricting 300m people to save 10, who may well die anyway (because the shooters are clearly insane and would probably get weapons anyway).

That is a variation on my first point.  Another variation is that this is just a quirky spike recently, and you ignore it, it won't be that relevant.  The thing now is that people won't even stand for this happening again. They feel their safety is threated.  We had recently the Batman shooting, and then a copycat of that, and some others also.

Also, even if ignoring it is the solution, the events recently have caused what is likely a tipping point where sufficient numbers of the body politic is demanding action be done to reduce this.  In this the second amendment is at risk, so anyone who cares about the second amendment needs to come up with solutions to reduce the number of these shootings.



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yum123 said:
The op has one glaring option missing, the best option remove guns completely and get them out of americas culture. which other western cultures and showing americans the example. also get rid of this stupid misconception that its a god given right that all you americans have the right to a murder weapon.

What I listed were arguments around the Libertarian and GOP side.  What you propose isn't connected to either of these options.  What you say may be an appropriate solution, but it isn't in keeping.  Another factor here is that the second amendment says that the citizentry should bear arms and those rights not be restricted, because it is essential to a well run militia.  The idea is to have the citizens be their country's defense, to defend against foreign invaders and also be able to overthrow the government, in the case of a dictatorship.  This "stupid misconception" you speak about is the second amendment.



snyps said:
^^^this is a weird unfounded argument.. If the whites didn't kill off the natives then why did their numbers drop to the point they are currently at.. You say the deforested themselves to extinction!? Bullcrap. Our genocide of the buffalo and military grads getting manifest destiny on their asses.. End of discussion.


I think you need to do more research ...

Whether you're dealing with the Mayans or the indigenous people of Easter Island, stone age tribal people (like Native Americans) did not practice sustainable development and lacked the technology to cope with the changing environment that was a result of their actions. Beyond that, with the lack of medicine even the spread of the Flu caused by a growing population could have been very deadly; and any substantial plague could easily wipe out countless tribes.

Certainly, European settlers did not really help the natives but it is likely that they had been in decline long before the Europeans arrived.



Libertarian position is as follows.. you do not put a fireman in every school.. you do however have extinguisher.. non of the other stances make any sense.. you give the teachers. the right to carry concealed weapons. to prevent this from happening again.. (The Teachers as thus protect their students.) All the other stuff is far fetched and makes no logical sense.



Nintendo Wii by generations...

1. Wii

2. Wii U

3. Wii O U

Predictions made by gamers concerning the current Nintendo line up of games.

Pikmen 3= Little Bump to nothing. (Got Little Bump)

Wind Waker HD= Won't sell anything (The explosion happened here and at one time 4 Wii U games was in the Amazon top 100)

Super Mario 3D World= Won't help at all looks cheap. (Currently the most sought after Wii U game and continuing the Wii U increase.)

I am curious to know why liberals believe banning guns will end shooting sprees or help eliminate gun death rates in inner cities? We know that making something illegal doesn't make it go away ( seriously we all understand this right)?

So if we understand that making it illegal doesn't work why is that the topic of msm and democratic politicians? I wonder if it is because they believe that removing the guns will help remove part of our fascination with them? Any liberally minded people out there that can give me a response I'd like to hear the thought process on the other side of the coin.



snyps said:

^^^They deforested themselves to extinction!? Uh Uh

 

Our genocide of the buffalo and military grads getting manifest destiny on their asses.. If the natives had guns they wouldnt be nearly extinct. End of discussion


You can look it up if you want.  They deforested their country it led to a lot of warming, which lead to a huge drought in which many native american peoples had to abandon a lot of their land.

Then when White people showed up... disease killed something like 90-95% of their remaining population.